to find this article on motherhood inFURiating?

[BlooferLady]

Guardian writer in 'motherhood is hell' shock

Disclaimer: je suis TTCing. Erm, for a LONG time!

I didn't want children for years. YEARS! Was violently opposed to it And you know why? Because it looked like one long unending saga of drudgery, misery, isolation and loss of identity and self-respect (I have a large family and thus had the opportunity to observe its effects up close every 18 months or so).

We're TTCing now - hormones and a little wisdom took over, and I would very much like to be a mother. And yet here on MN and in the press I find my old terrors reinforced, and this article sums it all up. Everything I feared is true...

BUT IS IT? By the end of the article I wanted to slap the woman. She complains of her life dwindling to a miserable compressed world of perma-exhaustion, leaking breasts, nappy changes, never seeing her old friends, losing her sense of a professional life, only ever socialising with mothers and mother and toddler groups, bitterly envying women who still go to work, angry with her partner for not helping out round the house...

Someone PLEASE tell me it doesn't have to be like this. I wanted to yell at her, get out of the damn house and DO stuff you moaning bint! No-one MAKES you go to mother and toddler groups - put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A! Let your partner do a bottle feed in the evening and go out for a boozy dinner! Do some work from home! MAKE your partner help out!

Surely there are people here on MN whose entire character isn't subsumed into the drudgery of being a mother? Who continue to be lively, interested in the larger world, engaged with their friends, interested in their career, happy in their relationships, still maintaining a sense of self and self-respect? For motherhood extends, informs, illuminates their life - doesn't effectively end it! Because if not, I don't want children. AIBU?!

working9while5, your post summed it up brilliantly, well put!

Can I also point out that just because someone chooses to be a SAHM for a few years doesn't mean that is it for the rest of their life. Most people's lives are not as black and white as the likes of scottishmummy and xenia like to make out. People do different things at different stages of their lives.

I worked full time for 5 years before DD1 was born. I liked my job, I found it fulfilling. Then after ML I worked part time for a year. That was ok too and suited me at the time, even though half my wages went on childcare. Then after DD2 was born I became a SAHM. I see it as something I'm doing for the time being, not forever. It's fab, I love it, but I know things will change once they start school and there are other things I'd like to do with my life - possibly get back into my former career, possibly retrain.

One thing I know is that right now at this point in time there is nothing more important or more worthwhile for me to be doing than to be at home with my girls. Mabe everyone doesn't feel like that, and that's fine, but that's how I feel. I don't think it means I'm not contributing to society, I've worked and paid my taxes, and I will do again! And in the meantime I'm contributing to society by (hopefully) bringing up two people who will also be good upstanding citizens one day.

redstripe, I think you're right. We see things so much as some kind of upward trajectory that simply isn't the case.

I was very career orientated until I had DS, then went part time, then SAHM after DS2 and now work part time (very) Freelance. I hope one day that I can pick my career up again but am happy for now.

Given that, by the time we retire, we're probably going to be 70, it's a long old race. Having a few years off in the middle is nothing to worry about.

There has to be a middle way between wanting a flat out career and staying at home for the next 40 years.

Just to reiterate.

I don't SAH. I don't work but I certainly don't SAH.

I have hobbies, commitments, animals, tenants, things I help mother and DH with, friends, children, school stuff.

I am far more valuable, needed and respected doing this than I would be as a wage slave.

"would you recommend not working to your children?do you think it is a good life choice?"

I would hope that neither of my children (one son, one daughter) makes a once-and-for-all-life-choice and then does nothing about planning for the future or about retaining enough flexibility to be able to do something new when circumstances change. I've had to spend more years than most thinking primarily about childcare (due to dcs' chronic health problems) but I've still got a good 20 years of working life ahead of me: plenty of time to adapt and relaunch my career. And for most parents, the years of childcare will be much, much shorter. So I wouldn't be very upset if either ds or dd took a few years for childcaring: I would assume that they could work twice as hard to make up for it later. As I am doing.

Cory - well said.

If my kids are half as lucky and happy as me I shall be incredibly proud and pleased.

"wage slave" thats an oxymoron.im not compelled or coerced to work.i actively chose it and have freedom of movement to chose employer and transferability of professional qualifications

so im not a wage slave,nor am i someone else wage slave. my day to day life is not dependent upon someone else wage

If those of us who adore lucrative interesting intellectually stimulating careers where many of us work for ourselves and eat what we kill are called wage slaves then we presumably way call housewives parasites living off male earnings in return for provision of sexual and domestic services?

Anyway each to their own but is a political decision which damages other women when women get off career tracks (usually for life) and do more domestic tasks than men. It's a moral wrong. The guardian writer is not just fed up but she is also morally and politically at fault for enabling an idle husband and allowing herself to fall into a subservient role.

housewives parasites living off male earnings in return for provision of sexual and domestic services?

The cap seems to fit, yup!

Except the cleaner does a fair bit of domestic servicing and I reckon DH does the sexual servicing :)

Xenia, how in God's earth do you earn such a high salary when you reduce the complexity of human experience to absolutes? Something is a "moral wrong" if it doesn't match your own experience? I would have expected those who thrive on intellectual stimulation to have the ability to accommodate several shades of grey in their interpretation of topics they spend a good deal of time debating, yet time and time again, you ignore subtleties to swoop in with woman-hating rhetoric disguised as "feminism". Eat what we kill, indeed : interesting imagery, there.

It is one thing to consider a woman's decision to be "political" when the decision is freely made rather than dictated by financial realities, yet for a very great number of women, the decision to work part time or to stay at home for a period of time with their children reflects disparities beween average male and female incomes that reduce the element of "choice" in these decisions.

Workplaces of those who are paid average wages are notoriously difficult when it comes to taking time off when children are ill and can't attend childcare - this is true for both male and female workers. Frequent absences due to an ill or disabled child may be shared equally between a male and a female partner but, in general, will reduce the career advancement of both when they work in average workplaces earning average wages. Research shows that parents of disabled children are much more likely to live in poverty and to lose their jobs because of their commitments. Childcare costs are prohibitive for many. I say it again: many workers do not earn enough to enable both parents to work full-time during a child's early years. Many cannot afford wrap-around care once children are in the school years. Is your existence really so rarefied, Xenia, as to consider this a "moral" and "political" wrong?

Modern economies really should be able to withstand parents (male or female) having commitments outside of work for a period of time. Personally, I think it is morally and politically wrong for people on extremely high salaries to assume that their view of work as a enjoyable, almost leisurely activity that is intellectually, socially and personally fulfilling is or can be the norm for all women.

Hmmm. I enjoy my work so much that I actually used to do it anyway without getting paid- has the fact that somebody is now shoving a reasonable amount of money into my bank account every month suddenly turned me into a wage slave?

I don't eat what I kill though: most students aren't really ripe enough.

The average wage is about £20k I think. The minimum full time wage is £13k. Women on average or minimum wages may find that keeping a job in the baby years ensures they retain employability for the enxt 40 years even if they work for no profit when the baby is young.

All this talk of 'housewives' being sexual slaves makes me think folk aren't getting any

No? Surely not nota??

I expect Xenia's ballbreaking woman hating is very attractive. Though as she, no doubt, earns more than all men ever, that they would be servicing her.

I am assuming Xenia is well enough educated to know her Shakespeare

Hamlet Act 3, scene 2

working

I almost gave you a standing ovation there.

Xenis, I've finally worked it out, are you Katie Hopkins? The only other so-called feminist I've heard spouting such vile woman-hating nonsense.

it is a political decision which damages other women when women get off career tracks ???? Never heard such rubbish in my life!

If you feel the need to justify your decision to go back to work by putting other women down that's your business but it's really quite sad. Me, I'm happy with my decision to stay at home but fully respect other people's right to do whatever suits them and their family.

Redstripeyelephant.
Katie Hopkins? She is a loathsome creature isn't she? She hates other women so much she even steals their husbands allegedly.

I don't understand you Xenia. you claim to be a feminist but you loathe other women. Surely all of us, men and women, have the right to choose how we live? You seem incapable of comprehending that some women are in equal marriages even though they don't work/earn less than their husbands. You also fail to see that many women are perfectly happy SAH and that they are not sad, lonely oppressed creatures. In fact, it could be argued that choosing not to work is a wonderful luxury.

Each to their own. It really is that simple.

no one steals anyone husband,they go of own volition.but portraying another woman as husband stealer is lurid and frankly daft and problematic if the wife left has not recently worked and needs to re-enter job market,and lifestyle plummets as the wallet waltzes out the door. maybe a sage lesson why one shouldn't be completely dependent upon another person

i dont actually know who kate hopkins is,what is her notoriety then?

Is she that horsey looking woman who was on the Apprentice a few years back?

lol that describes most of lassies on apprentice,hard to choose then.is she the posh one with the beret?

Scottishmummy.

If the wife works on the till at Asda full time and hubby is a Company Director, him leaving might be a smidge more problematic than currently non working solicitor/doctor/teacher/accountant wife being abandoned, no?

I was being TIC about " stealing". I dislike the Hopkins creature.

Oh, and in a marriage the wallet CAN'T waltz out the door. He can, it can't.
A sage lesson in ensuring you're legally protected, no?

by working and having ability to earn own money i feel secure. i think adults should have adequate fallback and not be wholly dependent upon someone else,just think its too precarious to have day to day life maintained by someone else salary

I agree actually.
I am not working now but did so in a highly professional capacity which I could return to very easily, like many, many SAH women I know.

i do think women need a level of autonomy and choice and role that isnt wholly domestic or parental to ensure that if they had to,they could support self/family

have friend who gave up professional job,sahm.her dh works her sahm means he attends all meetings any time,travels when he wants,his career has taken off like rocket. hers has stalled

children in primary school now,and she wants to return, but no opportunities at her previous grade, previous colleagues all moved on, no network or goodwill to get back in,no interviews for previous level posts. feedback she gets is great experience but too long out of emplyment