to find this article on motherhood inFURiating?

[BlooferLady]

Guardian writer in 'motherhood is hell' shock

Disclaimer: je suis TTCing. Erm, for a LONG time!

I didn't want children for years. YEARS! Was violently opposed to it And you know why? Because it looked like one long unending saga of drudgery, misery, isolation and loss of identity and self-respect (I have a large family and thus had the opportunity to observe its effects up close every 18 months or so).

We're TTCing now - hormones and a little wisdom took over, and I would very much like to be a mother. And yet here on MN and in the press I find my old terrors reinforced, and this article sums it all up. Everything I feared is true...

BUT IS IT? By the end of the article I wanted to slap the woman. She complains of her life dwindling to a miserable compressed world of perma-exhaustion, leaking breasts, nappy changes, never seeing her old friends, losing her sense of a professional life, only ever socialising with mothers and mother and toddler groups, bitterly envying women who still go to work, angry with her partner for not helping out round the house...

Someone PLEASE tell me it doesn't have to be like this. I wanted to yell at her, get out of the damn house and DO stuff you moaning bint! No-one MAKES you go to mother and toddler groups - put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A! Let your partner do a bottle feed in the evening and go out for a boozy dinner! Do some work from home! MAKE your partner help out!

Surely there are people here on MN whose entire character isn't subsumed into the drudgery of being a mother? Who continue to be lively, interested in the larger world, engaged with their friends, interested in their career, happy in their relationships, still maintaining a sense of self and self-respect? For motherhood extends, informs, illuminates their life - doesn't effectively end it! Because if not, I don't want children. AIBU?!

Bloofer - there is a lot of truth in this article and dismissing this journo for writing this artcle is wrong. I hated the early baby days but I would say don't let it put you off TTC, it really is worth it - I love my daughter so much it is unbelievable. There is a lot of boring, stressful stuff but I have met some really interesting fab mothers who are now proper friends and every day I love her more and more.

Good luck TTC - don't let this article put you off, it is worth it.

I agree with whatsfordinnerthen.

I also think it is important that people can talk honestly about the not-so-warm-and-fuzzy feelings that come with motherhood, because when you inevitably find yourself having them form time to time you don't feel like the only mother who has ever felt this way and therefore a terrible/selfish mother/person. I saw a book mentioned on another thread called "What Mothers Do (Even When It Looks Like Nothing)" and it is brilliant, it explores the ambivalent feelings that sometimes come with motherhood, as well as the positive ones. That is not to say that motherhood is "hell". It is life-changing, mostly for the better - but not always a walk in the park for everybody.

Ditanny, but my point is that parenthood will have a massivei impact on changing a woman's life and less so their men's life, if a woman let's that happen. There is a choice here.

But I think some men feel their role is to provide for the child and therefore work harder. I've never seen my DH put so much into work since we have had children and it certainly seems to have had an effect on him.

On one level I totally understand how the writer feels overwhelmed by life with a new baby, although I do think (like with many journalists) there is a "troll" element to it.

I love my boys dearly, but I do not think I am a particularly "natural" mother and I do find toddlers difficult to endure for long periods of time. I find baby groups terrifying, but that says more about me than them.

What does worry me, however, is the total lack of affection the writer feels towards either her partner or child. I feel that maybe the resentments that have emerged pre-date the change of role and are about something more fundamental about her state of mind/relationship with her partner.

I returned to a very demanding full time job 5 months after DS1 was born and found it wasn't for me. I have worked flexibly (part time + freelance) for the past 2 years and am now approaching maternity leave as about to have DS3.

I still find it weird that people choose to erect these bizarre SAHM v WOHM barriers - especially since the reality of most women's lives is that we will all do a bit of everything at some stage or another.

But that's a sexist thing - I have always said you gett better work out of women who have children because we have so many mouths to feed. I have loads of mouths to feed so that's made me work very very hard just like the husband above. Plenty of women are like that and most women don't allow sexist men to enable sexist patterns at home.

Always ensure your life is as unaltered once you have children as a man and the route to happiness shall be yours. Thus spake Xenia.

Ah, right.

novice, but that is not the case whilst men get only two weeks paternity leave. The system dictates that the vast majority of early child-caring is done by the mother.

I thought it was an excellent article - she attempts to explore things that are uncomfortable for some of us to hear and some of us to feel. There are lots of women here, and in the wider media, who seem entriely fulfilled by their children and who "love" being a mother. This article reflects that this is not universal. I grieved my life change for the majority of my daughter's first year, and then again when I added another child to the mix. I disliked mothering babies. It was also a time of real adjustment in my relationship with my husband. Despite the many conversations we had had about equality before the children arrived, it has taken us a few years to get a balance we are both happy with.
I now enjoy motherhood, largely because I combine it with other things, including paid work, but this balance seemed elusive in the early years and I remember feeling exactly as the author did.

OP, you asked "Surely there are people here on MN whose entire character isn't subsumed into the drudgery of being a mother? Who continue to be lively, interested in the larger world, engaged with their friends, interested in their career, happy in their relationships, still maintaining a sense of self and self-respect?". For many mothers these things return, albeit on a chnaged level, but it takes a while and MOST mothers do not do ALL of these things while their children are young (for me, it's the liveliness that is missing )

Well I just think we all follow our instincts with our children whether that be to work harder and provide or to be looking after our children. Its not sexist its the way we want it. I think my DH's life is massively altered and when he's here he does a lot with the children.

we all experience being mum differently and another mum subjective account shouldn't deter or put off. but realistically it is a huge and demanding shift and at least journalist acknowledges the turmoil and reality of changing to a different role,isn't all baby bliss and giggles. acknowledging this is a good thing - discussing realities of baby and life changes ups, downs is a positive thing

'Always ensure your life is as unaltered once you have children as a man and the route to happiness shall be yours. Thus spake Xenia'.

Apart from breastfeeding, there is no task in the house or regarding our son that my husband regards as being my job. I chose to go back to work part time because I was still breastfeeding, although he ensured his day off was on one of my working days so he could spend a day with our son without me. I earn more than him so it would have made sense financially for me to go back full time but I didn't want to. And I love my days off with my son. I didn't want my life to be unaltered - and apart from the fact that my husband works 2 1/2 more days a week than I do we split everything else down the line, in fact I go out more than he does! We take it turns to put our son to bed, we take it turns to lie in at the weekends, we take it in turns to sort out our son if he needs us at night.

This however, does not lead to automatic happiness. We've had a shitty couple of months because of various things (illness, money worries etc). We've muddled through it the best we can. I don't believe that you can dictate to other people what will make them happy Xenia.

Sorry - strange italics fail

clemetteattlee, no I genuinely don't think the "system" is at fault. Yes, while I was on maternity leave, dh got to return to work after 2 weeks while I got "stuck" at home (I found the first three months very hard work!). I didn't expect dh to do the child caring when he was at work, but I did expect him to do 50% of it in the evenings and at the weekends. So yes, his life sucked almost as much as mine those first few months (he wasn't breastfeeding and I didn't make him get up in the middle of the night for the sake of it) but there was no protecting him on my part from how hard it was.

After I returned to work (part time at first as I was breastfeeding), I expected him to fully do his share of the child rearing and whenever he tries to do less than this (he's fab but every once in while he wants to duck out of things like his mates), I make it clear that it is not acceptable. E.g. we're both changing an absolute stinker of a poo-y nappy (dd is a right wriggler) I wont let him just stand there passing me the wipes every single time, or, if he is running late from work, he can't just automatically assume that I will be home in time to relieve the nanny. From what I have seen of my close friends, it isn't the big things but the really simple things that all add up and can lead a woman to feeling like the journalist in the article.

That is not really what I mean. The system dictates that the woman stays at home whether she wants to or not in the early days. For a minority, economic circumstances mean ther partner can take unpaid leave but this is not the norm. This lack of choice belies any argument that there is systemic equality in the early days.
I always applaud those who have got their balance right. For us it gas been problematic as, although my husband is happy to do 50% of all of it, he still needs a project manager (me) to give him the list if things that need doing. As our children are older it is less about changing nappies or letting each other have lie ins (these things were never an issue here) and more about who does the family budget, pays the bills, sorts out school and nursery admin, makes appointments, arranges social events for us as a couple and us as a family, books holidays, plans menus, shops, cooks, does the washing etc etc etc. These are the minutea of family life yet I don't know a single family where the father does 50% of these. Being responsible for the "little" things can become unrelenting.
In our case we have an equal relationship - we contribute equally financially, we share parenting equally, we are free to pursue our own goals, friendships, and interests but he still doesn't know when the gas bill is due or which of our daughter's friends is coming for an after school playsate tomorrow!

Nightsdrawingin - Quick post as should be doing school preparation with kids, but I'm one of the posters that suggested that the author of the article might have PND. I think it's really good to be honest that (especially early) motherhood has some negative aspects. I hope I am honest with my friends - early weeks are often shockers. But from memory the author is about one year in. The way she was describing her feelings sounds really familiar to me, and I sought help for PND at 6 months with DC2. Wish I had earlier and I hope others would do - it's a condition that no one should struggle on with.

Really not suggesting she should be lobotomised!

Just to add another perspective into the mix... we adopted a baby, and we were able to choose which one of us would take the parental leave. It wasn't a case of maternity/paternity provision, but parental leave. As it turned out, I took it (largely because I wanted to) but also because my package worked out better than DH's - but he would have been entitled.

Many of my friends have commented on how our relationship and our parenting is a 50/50 team effort - and one friend commented that perhaps this is because we prepared for parenthood as a team - we went through the approval process together, and shared every step of the way as a duo, in ways that clearly can't happen if one of the partners is carrying a baby (as then both partners are having different experiences of preparation for the baby). Same friend then said she felt we were an effective parenting team because neither of us carried our baby, and so we both went into it with the same experiences/training/history.
I know it doesn't really answer the OP, but just thought it an interesting aside

Reading your post I have to wryly admit that I have to be a project manager too Clemett. :(

I think in the second half of the article she makes some good points about equality and shared childcare. But the first half pissed me off.

Comments like Having had a busy and purposeful life, I now occupied a universe where, apart from the grindingly repetitive tasks centred on feeding and cleaning my child, activity existed in the main simply to fill the time.

I'm a SAHM and actually have a very busy and purposeful life, thank you! It's as if she thinks childcare is somehow beneath her, and she is far too busy and important to do something as mundane as changing a nappy. Or god forbid sing a nursery rhyme.

I absolutely agree redstripeyelephant.

There is a big tendency to think the domestic tasks of motherhood is somehow an unworthwhile occupation. As time has gone on however I see just how vital my role is and yet it is so undervalued in our society.

Mothers can keep the family going in the same way as money into the house keeps everyone going (sometimes they are superwomen and do both). Its such a shame that motherhood is viewed like this and I think if the people around you value what you do and recognise its importance it makes a massive difference.

Oh and sometimes I think being brought up in a household that was very feminist and encouraged to have big career ambitions hasn't helped me adjust much. I think I was of a generation that was led to believe if you stay at home with your child and don't have a successful career you have failed. Also if you stay at home you are somehow a 1950s housewife who is controlled by her husband. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I was bored and miserable looking after a small baby. God it really is the last taboo to say that isn't it? Why does it piss people off if that was her experience?

clemetteattlee, your last post made me as I completely understand where you're coming from in the second half of it.

Just coming back to the first half re system.... I still come back to that it is a choice. The reason I say that is because in theory (unless you're Xenia!) no one makes a woman have a year's maternity leave. If you want to take 2 weeks then that's all the law says you have to take. I genuinely believe that the longer a woman takes off on maternity leave or becomes a SAHM then the more likely that by default she will end up doing all the "rearing". Even though the law is now going to change to allow men to take proper parental leave, I belive that in 99% of cases a couple will choose not to do that and the man will return to work and carry on as if his life hasn't been affected. I am very hot on this at the moment as this was an issue in our relationship when DC1 arrived. DC2's arrival is imminent and no doubt there will be similar levels of stress etc.

As regards the second half of your post, you're absolutely right, when it comes to all the things that you list, I am the project manager of our household and dh gets told what he is doing. Sadly, I am a list person so at the beginning of each week, I update my home "to do" list and it includes everything you list. However, in our household, there is also a bunch of other things that are not on your list and dh has his own list (he is also a list person) of these. We swap notes most weeks as to what needs to get done. So you're right, he has no idea who comes for a play date this week with dd this week, but equally I know the car needs servicing soon but would barely know how to organise that. I would be interested to know whether it works that way in your household?

ChristinedePizan - same here. Hard to go from making decisions every week/month that affect literally thousands of people to day after day of feeding/cleaning/housework/nursery rhymes/waving toys. Motherhood is the hardest job in the world, and I'm sorry but I don't find the baby stage entirely fulfilling. I understand that people do though and really wish I was more like them.

I do empathise with the writer, especially her early paragraphs, but a lot of her problem seems to be her other half, not the baby.

I def have days when I would rather do ANYTHING else than this....but I think you'd get burnt out doing anything this relentlessly. And there are always high points even on really bad days!! It's just about adjusting your expectations and learning to live with a lot more constraint on your personal 'freedom'. But as all cliches suggest, it does pass quickly and I'd much rather be part of the chaos and fury of my childrens early lives than not. That's the choice - for me anyway - and like loads of things we choose in our lives (partners for example...!) it's not always the easiest thing to stick by what you said you wanted! IMO it's worth it.