to find this article on motherhood inFURiating?

[BlooferLady]

Guardian writer in 'motherhood is hell' shock

Disclaimer: je suis TTCing. Erm, for a LONG time!

I didn't want children for years. YEARS! Was violently opposed to it And you know why? Because it looked like one long unending saga of drudgery, misery, isolation and loss of identity and self-respect (I have a large family and thus had the opportunity to observe its effects up close every 18 months or so).

We're TTCing now - hormones and a little wisdom took over, and I would very much like to be a mother. And yet here on MN and in the press I find my old terrors reinforced, and this article sums it all up. Everything I feared is true...

BUT IS IT? By the end of the article I wanted to slap the woman. She complains of her life dwindling to a miserable compressed world of perma-exhaustion, leaking breasts, nappy changes, never seeing her old friends, losing her sense of a professional life, only ever socialising with mothers and mother and toddler groups, bitterly envying women who still go to work, angry with her partner for not helping out round the house...

Someone PLEASE tell me it doesn't have to be like this. I wanted to yell at her, get out of the damn house and DO stuff you moaning bint! No-one MAKES you go to mother and toddler groups - put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A! Let your partner do a bottle feed in the evening and go out for a boozy dinner! Do some work from home! MAKE your partner help out!

Surely there are people here on MN whose entire character isn't subsumed into the drudgery of being a mother? Who continue to be lively, interested in the larger world, engaged with their friends, interested in their career, happy in their relationships, still maintaining a sense of self and self-respect? For motherhood extends, informs, illuminates their life - doesn't effectively end it! Because if not, I don't want children. AIBU?!

dittany is right. This article was about (1) fathers' lives being affected so much less and (2) the fact that it is possible to love your baby but yet hate motherhood.

I LOVED the article because it really hit home with me. I hated the early days with my baby too, and my career will progress more slowly than that of my DH.

if it offends you, then fine - but one can't blame this woman for giving an account of how she felt/feels.

I didn't read the OP as necessarily stating that what the article portrayed as drudgery was intrinsically boring or worthless, or as necessraily asking comments to revisit decisions made and explain the feelings involved. Rather, I read it as a statement that she thinks she might find them thus, and a genuine question about whether it can be different.

Because there are many reactions to the sort of motherhood described in the article-some love it (I know after three months I did, albeit not as a mother, and that I think the 'drudgery' essential for building trust and relationships with my kids), some think it drudgery but part of a package whereby you get the best bits too, others (like my partner) simply find it isolating and terrible. And it's possible to hold any of those views and be an SAHM/SAHP, working in and out of the home full time, or somewhere between. I really don't think the Op was a call to judgement or justification, so much as a question about possibilities.

And it's revealing-because so much of this thread seems to me really very naive about how being a woman and a parent is different form being a man and a parent. Doing care and taking responsibility is not the same thing, for instance (I find myself doing the research for schools, doctors, SN, worrying baout clothes more than my partner, for example), and men and women differ shraply in this (recent TUC survey showed many more men thought thye took repsonsibility than mothers thought their partners did). Maternity leave is a constricting factor in the patterns it develops. And motherhood and being a mother is not for individual woemn to define, even if the are able to define their relationships with their own kids, whereas men get far more freedom. Neither, entirely, is whether the V&A and baby groups are optional.

I have to say balming women for putting up with this, arguing about whose life is fulfilling, seems to miss this, to the detriment of women who want not just something different for themselves, but a different environemtn for other women. Which should be of concern whether you love 'drudgery' or not.

devoncream - that's exactly it. Spend 12 hours a day and then a lot of hours in the night with someone, anyone, is enough to drive anyone scatty when it's day in day out for years and years.

Exactly, whatsfordinnerthen, I think motherhood is very undervalued in society.

Of course she has every right to say she was bored and miserable as a SAHM, we've all felt like that, and being at home with a newborn is tough, noone would deny that (although it's a piece of cake compared to a toddler and a newborn ). What pissed me off is the way she seems to undermine the improtance of motherhood, compared to her VERY IMPORTANT AND WORTHWHILE job. At least that's what it felt like to me.

Hello folks! It's the OP here. It felt rude knowing there'd continued to be some fantastic debate on this, and not to pop my head round the door. It's all moved on now, so I won't address it all directly (other than to blush gratefully at those who've been very sweetly appreciative of some of my posts, and very kind in wishing me luck with TTC), but wanted to repeat my thanks to everyone for having taken the effort to discuss (I don't think it should be taken for granted that people join in on MN, if you see what I mean!).

I do regret again that my OP caused some distress, but I don't apologise precisely (if that doesn't seem contradictory): in just the same way mothers have every right to explain how tiresome it can all be, not-yet-mothers have as much right to express their distress and concern that what they long for most looks sometimes like a chalice of dubious quality, at best !

It's unreasonable in the extreme to expect there to be a harmonious conclusion to a debate like this, but from my perspective it has been enormously helpful. My horrified pessimism that if I were to conceive I should expect five years at the very least of unrelenting misery and loss of self has lifted. Some of you have posted the most wonderful descriptions of joy that should be collected and kept to be looked at in moments of despair. Some of you have been brutally honest about your own experiences - and that too should be kept, because it's all illuminating and valid. All of you have helped, and I hope helped not just be but other posters. A or to each.

If our campaign proves successful, I may or may not update depending on whether I can still successfully string a sentence together

This has been a great thread and I respect the OP for coming back so often to comment and acknowledge comments.

But why, why, why do posters seem so often to suggest that someone has PND every time they are sad or frustrated? Can emotions not exist without mental illness? Or is it just unacceptable to admit that motherhood is not always wonderful?

It is so frustrating that every time I admit to not being 100% happy with my life at the moment, someone labels me as mentally ill or as being part of some social sub-group that is more prone to feeling that way.

Why can't I just feel crap sometimes, and admit it?

Thanks OP. Off to make myself a comforting .

When I have collected newly awoken screaming toddler and newly awoken screaming baby from beds. Oh the irony.

Best of luck to you!

MoS i have to admit I have similar worries about the pathologisation of what may well be sleep deprivation and loneliness and so forth as PND. However I guess the pay-off is that women who do have PND are diagnosed and prevented from becoming very unwell. It's a shame that this may place a burden on women who do not have PND then having to persuade themselves and others that they are (largely speaking) all right. Have at least three biccies with your brew. No seriously, we all insist :)

squirt squirt squirt

The journalist did come across as a bit of a twat IMO but the some feelings she described seem similar to mine (though I stopped short of being spiteful to my partner or trying to blame 'the coalition' for the fact that my baby is a boobaholic).

DD was very much wanted and is very much loved but for me, the reality of having a baby is a shock to put it mildly.

Even with a very laid back baby like DD, it's rarely just a case of chucking her in a sling and popping out somewhere. It took me about 8 weeks to be take her out on my own- I remember spending all day getting us both ready to go out to the supermarket then sitting crying in my coat and shoes because I just couldn't do it. It seems silly now but I guess that's my point- you can't imagine how hard it is till you do it yourself. And nobody forces you to go to groups, but I had to force myself. When you're too tired to string a sentence together and your eyes are popping out your head with tiredness, it's the last thing you feel like doing. As a previous poster (ruth?) mentioned, it's ok to talk about sleep issues and feeding, but no-one ever admits to feeling completely alone and desperate. DP has been amazing but motherhood does isolate. DD wouldn't take a bottle so I can't be away from her for more than 2 hours.

Some days are just lovely and we manage to have a walk, meet with friends and have a coffee. Other days, I'm just glad we don't have a gas oven.

Oh splendid Canesten, changes in the seasons do so bring on my thrush

Mos -completely agree, about depression and PND.

Sorry Blooferlady, I got so carried away by being annoyed by the article I forgot to answer your actual question!

In short - no, it doesn't have to be like she described! I love being a mum and it has completely enriched my life. I have met some wonderful people, probably friends for life, at these 'awful' toddler groups the journalist describes. My daughters are funny, gorgeous little people and the best thing I have ever done. Yes it can be hard work sometimes, but that's true of anything that's worth having, right?

Good luck with TTC - it took us 2 years and various fertility treatments to conceive DD1, but I think the waiting makes you much more appreciative when it finally happens

Bloofer dont worry tis summer soon and you can go knickerless

Thank you Redstripey :) And congrats on your daughters. It is great to hear good news stories - and I think the waiting is making me more thoughtful at least (possibly, as someone upthread very wisely pointed out, slightly too thoughtful!).

the thing about sleep deprivation is that it doesn't go away and I'm always surprised by people who think it magically disappears - this is especially the case if you go on to have more than one and they start getting sicknesses in relays.

One of my dsis has 4 children - they are all out of nappies (3,4,6,8) but the eldest managed to get a sickness bug a month ago and only now has she managed to finish it going through the rest of them (and herself and dh!)

, waves instructions in approval...

OP, what I didn't realise before having children is that the fear of loss of self is nothing compared with the fear of not doing the best for your child and failing as a mother. The need to do something fulfilling is still there, but it comes after the responsibility of motherhood.

As for the author's article's very important and worthwile job, she could resign tomorrow and not be missed. In fact, most people could. But could you leave your children and not be missed?

monkeyjamtart - I tell you what, it's worth holding back on those foreign holidays now and saving up for when they are older (if you can afford it).

We didn't go abroad for ages as it just wasn't worth it. We went last year to see my family abroad and the children absolutely loved it (they are now age 9 and 10). At that age, they are so interested in the surroundings and the people and different languages that it makes a foreign holiday even more enjoyable than you could possibly imagine. We now have a few 'golden' years before they hit teenagerdom and start refusing to be seen with us!

If you were a banker and wanted a career change and went back to college and trained to be a, say, vet, you wouldn't expect to go to work in stilletoes and pencil skirts and to have long booozy lunches and to wear expensive jewellry to work or to smell nice after delivering a calf.... I'm not saying being a Mum is like being a vet (although there are some similarities!) but if you make such a big decision as becoming a mother then you should expect your lifestyle to change. Seems obvious to me.

2sons that's a great analogy! I guess though it was of course obvious to me that tehre would be changes, I had come to dread that the change would be 'happy' to 'unhappy'. As I said waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay upfred (so no earthly reason why you would have see it), the article was the straw that broke the camel's back, it having been already laden with similar miserablist (to me) straws from sisters, friends, evidence on FB, on MN, in articles etc. etc. etc. (I thought I would use a crushingly unsuccessul analogy just to make yours look better )

PS is your nickname supposed to make us all think of 2 girls 1 cup?!

Well if pencil skirts and stilletoes make you happy then motherhood may make you unhappy! But you can still wear them sometimes. They don't generally have pockets for snotty tissues and make running after a child heading for the road rather difficult.

Got to go and put child on potty. (everyone ready to clap and cheer and say 'who's a clever boy?!'.