to find this article on motherhood inFURiating?

[BlooferLady]

Guardian writer in 'motherhood is hell' shock

Disclaimer: je suis TTCing. Erm, for a LONG time!

I didn't want children for years. YEARS! Was violently opposed to it And you know why? Because it looked like one long unending saga of drudgery, misery, isolation and loss of identity and self-respect (I have a large family and thus had the opportunity to observe its effects up close every 18 months or so).

We're TTCing now - hormones and a little wisdom took over, and I would very much like to be a mother. And yet here on MN and in the press I find my old terrors reinforced, and this article sums it all up. Everything I feared is true...

BUT IS IT? By the end of the article I wanted to slap the woman. She complains of her life dwindling to a miserable compressed world of perma-exhaustion, leaking breasts, nappy changes, never seeing her old friends, losing her sense of a professional life, only ever socialising with mothers and mother and toddler groups, bitterly envying women who still go to work, angry with her partner for not helping out round the house...

Someone PLEASE tell me it doesn't have to be like this. I wanted to yell at her, get out of the damn house and DO stuff you moaning bint! No-one MAKES you go to mother and toddler groups - put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A! Let your partner do a bottle feed in the evening and go out for a boozy dinner! Do some work from home! MAKE your partner help out!

Surely there are people here on MN whose entire character isn't subsumed into the drudgery of being a mother? Who continue to be lively, interested in the larger world, engaged with their friends, interested in their career, happy in their relationships, still maintaining a sense of self and self-respect? For motherhood extends, informs, illuminates their life - doesn't effectively end it! Because if not, I don't want children. AIBU?!

Hi Aries
Definitely agree that 'moaning bint' comes reasonably low down on the list of potential insults that a person could make. To me though it smacks of the kind of thing an unreconstructed man might call any woman for daring to utter such radical notions as unequal pay/ harassment at work etc etc. Along the 'can't you take a joke' / 'political correctness gone mad' line of things and I always hate it when women fall into this mode when talking about other women. Although I'm sure that isn't what the OP meant at all and she seems like an intelligent and thoughtful person from all her subsequent comments.

Hello Ruth. At the risk of sounding like a kiss-ass, the OP is intelligent and thoughtful! Though the thread has diverted a bit now (which is fine), I took its original theme as being "At the moment all I hear is how stressful and awful being a mum is - please come and tell me positive stories!" And that's about it. It has been an interesting read.

Dittany, am loving the phrase "complete teed" and intend to use it often .

I'm a kiss-ass too. If the OP called me a "moany bint", knowing her as I do - I'd take it as a sign I needed to buck the fuck up and stfu!

Snigger. We are both kiss asses then alps.

And HTFU too of course.

But xenia who says it is the woman at home who is the muggins?

More fool you, I say - putting on a suit and going to an office to have meetings about meetings is not steeped in life's rich purpose to my mind! Just receiving a pay check or a pat on the back does not make your choive inherently worthwhile. IMHO, you are the anti feminist for thinking that what a man typically does is worth more than 'women's work'. Either sex can do either, and I have done plenty of both, but there is no doubt in my mind which is the stupid menial stuff.

But the recent comments do sort of highlight a problem with the article-which is what happens between domestic and general set-ups, something the writer lost in her honest portrayal of her own domestic struggles.

Because we made the choice to do what the journo and her sperm donor (DP seems rather strong in this case) didn't. I (man) took six years worth of holiday as cash payment, stuck it in a bank account, then used that to negotiate unpaid leave of absence from work for six months (it helped I knew I was moving from one job to another so could use the summer break too). We childcared by rota-each taking two days a week (me in the week, DP the weekend) so the kids can see us but each work full-time. This year I shifted career to enable childcare to be done on an equally shared basis. Our kids tell carers Daddy cooks and Mum paints, that neither of us clean (very true), and seem to like my fat tum for comforting cuddles but my partner for ball games in the garden. Domestically, we've been incredibly lucky enough not only each to find someone who really wants 50-50 care (and it is clearly possible to love someone and disagree on this), but to have been able to work pragmatically to achieve that.

And none of that changes the fact that she is shat upon for being a mother making those choices in the way I am not, that we had to take extreme measures to ensure even a modicum of balance in the early leave which does set patterns, that my parents think I am a failure (my Mum used the phrase beta male) whilst her parents think I'm exploiting her, that acceptable 'motherhood' does not mean simply being a woman who has given birth, that she is still asked at work what days she is in, that I had to work into the small hours every night for two years to cover for the emergency childcare I was doing during the days but had no means of admitting, and that nothing we do changes any of the discrimination we face as parents, or the worse stuff that she faces every day for the choices she made. Or the fact then when she's crying about all this, all I can do is point out I suffer a little too, although nowhere near as much.

It really isn't a case of blaming someone for how men or women think, or of choosing a non-sexist partner, or of making choices differently (even if you have them), it's a fundamental problem with what 'motherhood' is said to be which craps from a great height on all women (parents or not). And the article and the OP, however naive some think them, are a breath of fresh air for simply asking 'why'.

And maternity leave is a place to start (and is now sharable) but it's a start, not a solution.

But none of that means BlooferLady shouldn't have kids, just that if she wants the last paragraph to be true she'll have a fight on her hands. Which seh is well able to handle, I reckon.

Some years ago I left a successful teaching career (though I don't know if it would qualify as "success" in Xenia's eyes as I would not have been able to afford a nanny) to start my own business. It has been very hard and we have been badly off and we live in a rented house. But what I find almost most satisfying is going to the bank on a daily basis - in the summertime at least - and putting real, actual money into the account, rather than just some figure on a computer screen being changed at the end of the month which represents my salary. The business is doing ok, there have been struggles and no doubt Deborah Meaden would be out, but I think I find life more satisfying than I did before. And if our ongoing quest to conceive ever succeeds, in some ways I think (though can't be sure) that I would be pleased to be able to spend more time with the child, rather than rushing home to pick them up from nursery, getting them fed and bathed and then starting on marking and reports. Call me naive if you wish.

It's the clash of the titans on here...xenia vs dittany.

Keep going!!

Well done Ariesgirl, I want to do the same.

Xenia, all my brothers took substantial parts of the (Swedish) parental leave available to their families because they thought childcare was an important job and as interesting as anything they were likely to be doing in their (fairly successful) careers- does that make them mugginses (?plural)?

I heard Maria Sveland (the woman tacked onto the end of that article) on Woman's Hour fairly recently and I thought what she had to say was very interesting from a feminist's point of view. Have been meaning to look for her book...

Men who do dumb insolence should find themselves on the receiving end of a divorce petition. It's not women's fault if they unexpectedly find that when presented with a post partum wife and a new born baby their husband suddenly becomes a Neanderthal, but it is their fault if they tolerate it.

And lol frankly, at the idea of Dittany calling anyone a tede.

As Adela says plenty of men like him can share domestic tasks so why do women end up doing too much? They need to think about the causes. Why do they let it be so that they do too much at home and work? Why do they tolerate any criticism that they work which would not be applied to men? If a colleague says you should be home with your child you could say why aren't you, if he's male (not that anyone really has every said that stuff to me).

As for dittany and me we both want to eradicate inequalities so although we might have very different views presumably she would also baulk at where women work as much as men and end up doing more than then at home there is a moral wrong in there which needs to be corrected. We differ because I don't see anything wrong with capitalism and survival of the fittest and know women enjoy playing that game as much as men (and of course some men and women choose to withdraw from the game and if they choose to so be it although if they are female in the current state of things that is damaging to other women).

I find the OP a little patronising, tbh.

I couldn't have put either of my DDs in a sling and taken them to a museum. They both screamed the bloody place down non stop for 12 weeks. Nothing would make them stop. I couldn't even take them to a mother and baby group because of the ear splitting colicky crying.

Each time, after 12 weeks of dealing that while alone during the day, I felt exactly as the author describes. I used to dream about running away. It wasn't exactly what I was expecting from early motherhood.

The DDs are now 7 and 3 and they make me smile every day, but my memories of those early days are still grey and cloudy. And there is no denying that motherhood has made me infinitely more anxious and careworn (and therefore- depending on your definition- less happy) than I used to be.

Yes, there are many wonderful things too, but "mother happy with new baby" is probably a hard sell for a magazine piece.

Xenia

Please don't co-opt what I said. What I said was that regardless of the choices my partner makes, regardless of how often she says 'every day' to 'which days are you in', regardless of how much I do, she will always suffer more because what she does will not alter how 'motherhood' is seen.

Neither am I wild about the truly exceptional case that we are fortunate enough to have been being held up as if all couples could do it, and the fault lies with them for not doing so.

Are you then of the opinion that all women need to be involved in the making of money, partly for the sake of other women then, Xenia? I'm not having a go - I just want to clarify your point

Damaging to other women, Xenia? I don't think so, and certainly not to the new generation of women they may be choosing to look after. It sends the most positive message possible to my daughters that I consider their daily care and development more satisfying than any paid job.

But surely this is the problem of focussing on individual choices, which the OP and the article didn't, they didn't ask 'which path is most wonderful for you, justify its importance to the world', they just ask 'what are the practical possibilities and limitations'.

Because surely one of the problems of 'motherhood' is that even Xenia, who seems to think it can all be made up by individuals, isn't at this moment asking her DP to write to some anonymous folk justifying his parenting choices and questioning how they made theirs?

While realistic, I find the article rather odd. So her husband didn't do his fair share of the child rearing while she was on maternity leave or since then. Well, why not? If there is any "fault" then she is partly to blame for allowing herself to be treated that way by her dh. If she wants him to do his "fair share" then she should just lay out what her expectations are of him and then call him on it when he is leaving her to it.

My husband is in a senior position in his workplace. All his senior colleagues think nothing of working excessively late and long hours or adopting travel schedules that mean they are rarely home or participating in events at the weekend e.g. being entertained at sport events. If I "allowed" it, dh would do exactly the same thing. But I don't. I make it clear that he was there at the conceptions, I therefore expect him to follow through and raise his own children rather than leaving it to me. Yes, I do take care of the organising of things, food, clothes, childcare etc etc, however, I do those because there are other things that I don't do such as sorting out the car or fixing things in the house, therefore it all balances out.

Funnily enough, both my mother MIL had the same approach as me so FIL and my father were more hands on than the average man of their times. I think it has very little to do with the working status of the woman. I work full time, DM worked part time and MIL was a SAHM, yet we all had the same attitude.......If a woman wants an equal relationship then it is up to her to set out what her boundaries are and enforce them, not dh's employers, or the state or even society.

Well, Flowerpot, not that lazy, considering (as PPs have pointed out) she managed to write a whole book during the first year of motherhood.
If we took the 'ungrateful woman- how dare she complain when she's been blessed with a baby' line of thought to its logical conclusion, no one in the Western World would ever be able to express any concerns about any aspect of their lives because they have been blessed with enough food to eat, shelter etc. A bit of perspective is a good thing, but this seems a bit harsh.

Haven't read whole thread, but in response to your OP I would have to say I have found motherhood hard. But, as the cliche goes, immensely rewarding - however I have only recently started to feel this. The first few weeks of motherhood for me was REALLY hard due to a dd with reflux and lactose intolerance. I'm not sure if I suffered with PND but I came close. It is exhausting and hard and it does totally change your life and your identity.

BUT, don't let it put you off. Everyone is different. NOTHING will ever prepare you for motherhood so I should take the article with a pinch of salt. I do think your criticisms of the author are unfair though. This was her honest expression of her feelings. Your "suggestions" are only temporary remedies - no matter how many boozy dinners or feeds her dp gives, she is still a mother and that is always there and can feel overwhelming - plus there is a constant sense of guilt...

I can see your point but IMO you just don't know what being a mother is like until you are one - nor how you will respond to it. x

What strikes me about this article is that being flung from an independent free life into motherhood is a massive shock and takes some getting used to. I think I felt similar to this for six months or so after I had my first and was jealous of those who could leave the house alone and do what they needed to get done in a day because that was what I was used to. But I was still so in love with my baby and would do anything for her.

Your whole life changes in literally a day and I found I was almost grieving a little while for my old life. I was totally unprepared really for what was to come and the shock is probably worse if you have had a career or you have babies later on in life.

I really love my life with the children. Now they are a bit older I have learnt to see the value of what I do as a mother and how skillful and important the job is.