to find this article on motherhood inFURiating?

[BlooferLady]

Guardian writer in 'motherhood is hell' shock

Disclaimer: je suis TTCing. Erm, for a LONG time!

I didn't want children for years. YEARS! Was violently opposed to it And you know why? Because it looked like one long unending saga of drudgery, misery, isolation and loss of identity and self-respect (I have a large family and thus had the opportunity to observe its effects up close every 18 months or so).

We're TTCing now - hormones and a little wisdom took over, and I would very much like to be a mother. And yet here on MN and in the press I find my old terrors reinforced, and this article sums it all up. Everything I feared is true...

BUT IS IT? By the end of the article I wanted to slap the woman. She complains of her life dwindling to a miserable compressed world of perma-exhaustion, leaking breasts, nappy changes, never seeing her old friends, losing her sense of a professional life, only ever socialising with mothers and mother and toddler groups, bitterly envying women who still go to work, angry with her partner for not helping out round the house...

Someone PLEASE tell me it doesn't have to be like this. I wanted to yell at her, get out of the damn house and DO stuff you moaning bint! No-one MAKES you go to mother and toddler groups - put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A! Let your partner do a bottle feed in the evening and go out for a boozy dinner! Do some work from home! MAKE your partner help out!

Surely there are people here on MN whose entire character isn't subsumed into the drudgery of being a mother? Who continue to be lively, interested in the larger world, engaged with their friends, interested in their career, happy in their relationships, still maintaining a sense of self and self-respect? For motherhood extends, informs, illuminates their life - doesn't effectively end it! Because if not, I don't want children. AIBU?!

I am SO sorry not to have read the whole thread- I know it's a major Mumsnet error. BUT I really wanted to say that I also thought this was another very blah blah motherhood sucks article in the same vein as Rachel Cusk et al - I'm too clever to enjoy motherhood, motherhood is all wiping bums etc etc.

Many people enjoy motherhood A LOT - and not because they are undereducated fools who love repititive tasks - it's because you're forming a relationship with someone you adore. It may also have a lot to do with having peers with babies who you actually get on with - something the guardian article writer and Rachel Cusk seem to lack, sadly for them.

Personally, motherhood has improved my life a lot. In all ways - I feel I have grown, not diminished as a person. Yes, things have changed, but I have actually been able to pursue my real dreams/goals more than before (not just in motherhood related things). It's really prompted me to do what is most important and not waste any time.

However I must say I do agree with the division of labour argument in this article - many Mums I know really really struggle with their DHs not doing their fair share of the housework. And I thought it also didn't just completely blame the men but offered quite a balanced outlook on this. I am very very lucky in that DH does a lot, and maybe this has helped me to enjoy motherhood so much.

Hmmm, anyway, just to say that it is definitely possible to really flourish as person when you become a mother - and I hope you can become a mother very soon :)

I am a very happy, fulfilled SAHM. Motherhood has been for me the most life-affirming, wonderful thing and I have been (mostly!) happy to trade a very successful career to enjoy it full time.

But i do see what the writer means - her central point is that until we have children the right to equality is a given. But well educated, ambitious women who marry decent blokes can still find themselves transported back to the 1950s once they become mothers. With dd1, dh and I took it as an absolute must that we would split things pretty evenly. Many reasons - cultural, the nature of the male workplace, biological, emotional - made that increasingly hard. Our roles are now very polarised and we both feel resentment at times

But that isn't necessarily a disaster. I now realise that many of the things that make us unequal could be classed as a female priviledge. Giving birth, breastfeeding, the particular need for your mother when you are ill, or just need comfort - they are the most draining but the most wonderfully rewarding aspects for me.

OP - i see where you are coming from, it is dispiriting to only hear the negative. Motherhood is so much more than sick and stained t-shirts. But at the same time the inequality is pretty impossible to completely avoid in the early months at least. But maybe that isn't all to the bad. You can immerse yourself in all its glory (!) and i certainly don't feel any less for that.

Good luck TTC.

the article is refreshingly honest. but don't let that put you off!

And Xenia I strongly disagree with your comment that day to day childcare is "low value". It is precisely amidst the seemingly repetitive drudgery that you forge bonds, impart ideals, build trust, develop language skills, pass on your own view on life and in return get joyful little nuggets from the child. The cuddle at the end of the day may be the most pleasant bit for you but that doesn't make it higher value. There is a lot more to it all than changing nappies. Plenty of cultures value day to day childcare more highly than ours. Read "What Mothers Do" if you need convincing.....

I think you'll understand when and if you become a mother.

Yes it's hard and you have to sacrifice some stuff but most things that are worthwhile in life don't come easily.

You'll see, it's worth it :)

I think 'the negative' in the article was because the she felt the division of chores/childcare etc was unfair .Imagine what she might have written if her partner had done his fair share around the house and actually said -'you look frazzled go and have a bath ' hey presto -no sick stained tshirt and no simmering resentment.
When I was BF my 2 DC in the early months my DH realised he had to step up thank goodness .Sadly he is the only man I know who changed after the birth of our DC and actually really took the plunge and got stuck in .

Adela, I see what you're saying about your happiness centering on how much time you get to spend with other adults. I do agree - but without sharing the childcare (or at least sharing the responsibility when both parents aren't working) it becomes impossible to see friends or to enjoy it when you do. The ability to switch off from looking after your child is really important for me in terms of relaxing and feeling like the old me, and is only possible if your partner will be in charge for a reasonable share of the time.

You sound like a great farther and partner by the way!

Bloofer I have found that our friendships haven't suffered much, even though our friends generally don't have kids, but then we only have one child and she's just 1 year old. I am guessing that it will get more difficult later.

yOU CANNOT HAVE IT ALL.
You sound very ambitious, career orientated. I think you are not sure you want to have children. Why are you feeling the need to have them now?
You do NOT have to have them if you are not 100% ready for it, there is no law that says that you MUST have babies or your life will not be worthed.

Let me tell you what I think - despite Xenia - if you really want to be involved in your children's life, you just cannot go back to the type of career you now have.

I can tell you from experience. I went back to fulltime work when DS1 started school. I would have never them my kids in a creche as tiny babies, I will not get into debates/details but I firmly believe that very small children need the security of a single carer to grow into confident people.

Now, I love working, I do not want to be a SAHM mum. But I cannot commit to working long hours, I cannot commit to travelling, I will need to be away from work if one of my kids is sick, I will have to take holidays when my kids are on holiday.

IF YOU REALLY DO NOT WANT KIDS THEN DONT HAVE THEM

I don't think it's either 'happy' or 'low' when it comes to motherhood. It's a bit like promotion at work. You want it, of course you do and you are thrilled when it happens. But then you realise that the work is tougher, there is more responsibility and stress, you perhaps don't have as much free time, but you are still delighted to be there. And sometimes it's great and sometimes it's awful. That's how I have found it anyway.

It's just real life.

I too think the article is pretty reflective of a lot of women's experiences of motherhood and work; it's just that it's not very reflective of many other women's experiences. My own experience has been very different - DH has always been hands on - sharing night feeds and sick child and chores - it genuinely IS 50/50 for us despite him working long City hours and I'm working too. I did find the early months boring and monotonous but I never attended a single mother/baby group and I did take DD to galleries and museums all across London (where I live). DD is a toddler and she's never been to soft play, thank the Lord! Life is great and I am more than a mother.

I haven't read whole thread, but read article.

Now I love my ds, but I have found a lot, especially the first few months utterly shit. But my dd had reflux, didn't sleep and at 18months he still doesn't sleep much.

When my bf told me she was pregnant, I was happy but inside I felt so, so bad for her. I knew what was coming and there was nothing I could do about it.

I have spent the last 18months of my life so tired I can barely think straight, so maybe I am no a good example. I love my ds, but I won't be doing it again.

To describe motherhood as "hell" is crazy and insensitive.

To lose three babies to miscarriage in a year is hell.

If I didn't go to baby group I wouldn't see anyone, my non-baby friends.seemed.to disappear. I live in a rural area on the outskirts of a northern city, so a bit different.

highlights I fins that insensitive. It was hell for me, I wanted to kill myself to escape it. Not everyone is a natural mother.

crip

I accept all that, absolutely. I just feel it is sad that so much of this thread recommends that the OP share, use childcare (paid and unpaid), have a DP who responds to her needs to become effectively temporarily childless again.

Because for me (in fact, I think us) the real shock of parenting wasn't how we managed this and the effects (major) it had on each of us, but how the world did, and so actually hit about six months in. The true shock was not what parenting involved, but that there seemed so little space in the world in which you could be both you and a parent, do what you wished with kids without funny looks, or talk in ways which admitted the centrality of parenthood (baby boring?) to other adults without being reduced to being DC's Mum / Dad. I think the article and the OP's last paragraph hint at that, and would wish the OP to think about that too-not just her 'family' but the world.

Don't shout timetoask! . I do want children: I want them very much. I suspect (and I don't bleeding blame you) that you haven't read my other posts. It's just odd to be in the position of wanting something that, to an outsider, looks pretty miserable and thankless. Needless to say the Wise Women of MN have demonstrated otherwise :) If any Grauniad sub-editors are reading, perhaps they might like to commission an article from the contented ones here

Crip

Thanks too for the nice comment. timetoask would clearly think me a terrible parent for not being a single carer.....

I think we are all more than a mother. We are many things whether in paid employment or not.

Days like today where my DCs have done nothing but bicker, fight and not listen to a bloody word I wonder what we were thinking. But even in the midst of a fairly bleak day like today there are still some magic bits. You just have to be able to spot them and enjoy them. Otherwise it can all be one long continuous slog...

In the town I live in (which isn't where I work) I am most definitely not more than a parent. Only four adults other than my partner, after nearly two years in which I have helped care for babies at baby groups etc., confidently addresses me by my name rather than as 'DS's Dad'.

And, to be honest, there are many women I know in much the same way despite us knowing rather intimate details about us and having supported each other in some very harsh times.

practically I hope it won't sound patronising to say I think it's incredibly courageous to admit to how you felt. And I am very very glad that things are getting better and hope they continue to do so.

Adela I do take your point, I think - that one can arrange things on the Home Front so that they work beautifully, but there is little once can do about one's place in the world. WHen I was very young I remember saying to my Mum that I didn't want children because I was Bloofer, but if I had children I would be 'Tarquin's Mum' or whatever. I would only have been 9 or 10 at the time but still had a pretty strong fear of ... I don't know .... disappearing, if you see what I mean?

timetoask
Why are you shouting?

I firmly believe its best for children/babies to have parents who are happy.

My SIL is a nanny who has had a great career caring for other peoples children and I firmly believe the children she cared for were very very lucky .

Why?Because not only did their parents love and care for them she did too.Most parents love their DC and therefore strive to find kind,caring childcare.

Its very sad that you are so negative about childcare and I say this as someone who has not had to use it as my DH was able to share 50/50 in childcare due to the fexibiity of his job .

It is all still worth it, though. I just think if you are really thinking hard then you should keep trying to conceive, deserve too, but also need to be aware of the shock. I think the worst mistake my partner and I made was to spend a lot of time balancing our own childcare, planning the mutual sacrifices around that, and then hit the world thinking we'd fixed it when we hadn't at all. You have time not to be so blithering ninny-ish.

"get out of the damn house and DO stuff you moaning bint! "....
It's so hard to explain to someone who has not got kids, that this actually often isn't simple or acheivable. Depending on the sleeping/eating of babies and toddlers, getting out of the damn house may be far more difficult an undertaking than anything you have ever done in your life so far!!!! Just one example - my ds as a baby, if he slept even a minute past 3pm, would be UP ALL EVENING - take him out in the pram or the car and he would sleep - often it was a case of, is this outing WORTH losing the only precious hour or two in the day when I am able to just be myself; is it worth an evening of overtired screaming, sweaty, wriggling HELL?> no it's bloody well not.
Yes, you can get out but no it is not EASY specially if you have two, three or more kids.

No-one MAKES you go to mother and toddler groups - put the creature in a sling and wander round the V&A! (yes, love the V & A. My ds as a baby didn't like it much and you can't really concentrate on paintings with a baby who screeches every time you go below a certain speed...;...and lets not even consider doing that with a toddler or two who have that need for speed and legs to go with it.....) also, possibly the only time you get to sit and chat with another adult is at a group. You may not want to give that up for a lonely walk around on your own.

Let your partner do a bottle feed in the evening and go out for a boozy dinner! #Yes, it can work but what if you are breastfeeding - many babies won't take a bottle at all. Many babies won't take anything from anyone other than mum. Babies ARE a tie. That's why people get frustrated and fed up. Because if it was that easy to negate the stresses of motherhood, many clever ladies would already have done it.
Do some work from home! - yes, do let me know how this goes when you have a baby....

MAKE your partner help out! Likewise......

(though of course men should and do 'help out'; though that's another story; even without kids your terminology is about them 'helping' - they are not helping, they are equal parents. Except.......just let me know how it goes.....

well, pretty much all articles on motherhood are bleeding annoying

i don't know why it seems to come as such a shock to some women that babies are hard work and that sleep deprivation is not very nice-well duh

then as they grow up it gets easier in some ways but harder in others

I recommend going back to work but boy does life get complicated sometimes-much more so when they start school. And yes, for some reason it does seem to be the mother's job to worry about everything from remembering the dinner money to buying new school clothes when the old ones don't fit, to rearranging school pick-ups when the childcare goes wrong...dh just doesn't seem to think about this stuff somehow. He's fab in other ways but I always have to be the organised one and it makes me bloody tired sometimes.