AIBU or just moaning?

[newbeemummy]

Ok, I?m prepared to be flamed for this, and maybe I just need to rant to get it off my chest.

DP and I have swapped traditional roles, in that I work FT and he is the SAHP, for the main part this arrangement works well, as I earn more than he did in his last job (mind you if he did a job that he could easily do but not enjoy, he could easily earn a lot more than me, but he?s never been career motivated)

Anyway my job is hard work, I often have to leave the house at 6:30am to get to a customer site on time, and I often don?t get back until 7:30pm. I find my job is mentally taxing and I currently feel stressed up to the eye balls doing a job I dislike and the pressure of having to work extra hard to earn enough money to pay bills, save for a deposit, pay for DP?s rather expensive hobby.

Often when I get home DP will ask how I am and I will say I?m exhausted. Up at 5:45 to walk to the station at 6:30 to catch a 7am train, and then a 15 minute walk on the other side to get to site before 9am, and then the same on the way home, and I often have to catch up on emails etc when I?m at home in the evening as some customers are really funny about me doing other work while they pay for my time which is understandable. DP will then respond he?s also had a hard day woken up at 7:30am, and had to entertain DD all day and do the grocery shopping.

Now I don?t want to belittle what he does, because he does cook dinner and almost always washes up too, but to be honest I?m getting a bit annoyed with the whole my day is as bad as yours. He spends 2 hours a day watching telly because that?s when DD naps, his days involve going to play groups, having coffee with other mums, going to the park etc. He?s now talking about putting DD into Nursery for 2 -3 half days a week so he can get some ?me time? which means I?m now getting pressurised to change jobs so that I can get more money, which would mean a lot more travelling for me, so even less time with DD.

I know I?m being horribly ungrateful, but I?m just so fed up, I feel like I?m sacrificing everything and getting nothing in return.

Penguin, no I wouldn't. But it isn't clear that the couple in question have had a conversation where he expects that. Maybe she deals with all the money? And that's a clear issue. She says that there isn't the money for that, and unless he chooses to go to work and she needs nursery, then the DD will have to wait until she is 3 and gets free places.

Nursery when he is at home is a luxury, and all it needs is a conversation where it is set out that they cannot afford that. I DO think, and my arguing for him does not cut this out, I really DO think that he needs kicking into touch about some things: the weekend lie ins, he is totally taking the piss, and suggesting that she should work more to fund nursery when he is using his time already is silly. I do agree that if he is using his free time for his hobby, then he doesn't get any more free time, particularly if they cannot afford it.

But I also think it is unfair to say that he should have to pay for his hobby himself. He is doing a job, it is just not paid. As a partnership, the money that they have should pay for his hobby, as it should pay for any hobby that the earning partner has, ASSUMING that they can reasonably afford such things.

That's true, but I think people are responding to the expectation that she should automatically earn extra to finance it rather than the hobby itself. As with everything context is a key part of it.

I earn, me and DH have a personal allowance, that is normally the end of the discussion of what we personally spend as we agreed on the budget. Anything spent on DD is split between our two budgets. I often have to make go out and do more expensive activities like scuba diving as he feels bad about spending money. The OPs situation seems a lot more unequal though. She is not allowed personal time, but he is demanding more even though he gets the weekends.

I think it's unreasonable of him to expect you to work longer hours. You must hardly see your dc on weekdays at it is.

You though also need to realise that it's not a piece of piss being a stay at home parent! Going to play groups and even out for coffee can be stressful, getting out of the house, dealing with tantrums and kids hitting each other at playgroups, keeping dcs safe near roads. It's constant!

I find it very hard and am envious that my DH gets to talk to other people, gets a change of scene and doesn't have a small child demanding of him all day. He does a stressful job as well and I understand that but he also doesn't have the monotony that I do. I was for a long time not coping at all and could have really done with the odd day of childcare (or even an hour) but we couldn't afford it so it was tough.

In my opinion you need to realise that his job isn't as easy as you think it is and he needs to realise that if he wants more hobby time he's either going to have to try to earn the money to pay for it or cut back on the expensive hobby to pay for the childcare. He can't have both without you having to make a huge sacrifice . . . any time with your child!

That said I think the lay-ins at the weekend should be shared, one each. Next time he doesn't get out of bed to deal with DC give him a kick. That should be shared as well.

I had this issue with my DH when we both worked full time and our daughter was at a childminders. We ended up agreeing that we'd split everything 50/50. Sounds a bit immature but it works. I get a lie in on Saturday and he gets one on Sunday.

As for hobbies, we put aside some money each month and split it 50/50, that way he appreciates what he's got and I don't feel I'm being 'hard done to'. Even if you spend it on your little un and not you. It's still up to you what you do with it.

The competitive tiredness is a killer and difficult to get past, but sit him down and ask him to listen to you. explain that you'll do the same for him tomorrow night, but for tonight it's all about you. Explain how you feel and ask him to help you solve it. Then do the same for him the following day - you might be surprised about how he feels too. Doing it one day at a time will help you both concentrate on one person at a time without trying to 'out do' each other in the hard done to stakes.

I can't believe on one thread people are encouraging a SAHM with an 8 month old (who already has a cleaner) it's ok to put her into nursery a couple of days a week to get some 'me-time', but on this thread people are berating the OP's husband for wanting to do the same thing!

By the way YANBU to not want to work longer hours so he can do this, I'm just surprised by the contrasting tones of the threads!

And YABU to do competitive tiredness, it never ends well... just accept you are both tired and both your jobs are demanding in their own way.

"He loves being a SAHP, and hates the idea of going back to work, we have discussed that before, he keeps saying once DD get's to school going age he may look at doing spomething part time to fit in with School pick ups etc (although does keep reminding me we'll hopefully have DC2 by then, so it could be longer before he returns to work.) "

This sentence says it all.

He clearly doesn't find staying at home hugely fulfilling and wonderful, or he wouldn't be moaning to you. He's doing it as the easier option because he doesn't want to get off his backside and work. And now he wants you to work even harder to fund some childcare, so that he can have even more 'me' time than the two hours he gets on a daily basis already.

The very idea that he 'might', just might get a little part time job when your dd is in school (so long as its nice and easy and fits around school pick ups) - gosh, how generous of him. And he then goes on to admit that actually he'd really prefer you to have another child by then, because that gives him an excuse to stay off work longer!

He's taking the piss.

Having said that, I do actually know a couple of women who have had another baby when their youngest reaches school age as a 'justification' for staying at home... so perhaps this isn't unusual in its shockingness!

redstripeyelephant but (if I'm thinking of the same thread) she can afford it whereas on this one they obviously can't. That is the (rather massive) difference. I also don't think that she has said (on the other thread) that her DH would then have to work extremely long hours and not see his children mon to fri to be able to fund it.

redstripeyelephant - surely the difference is that on the other thread, the DH was encouraging the mother to use nursery, and was willing to pay for it, because she seemed to be struggling at home.

Now, personally, I wouldn't feel the need to use childcare for a break if I had just one child and wasn't working, but if the woman's partner is agreeable, then it's up to them.

There is a big difference when the partner is saying, 'hang on, I'm already working all hours in a stressful job to enable you to stay at home, you're already getting two hours to do your own thing while the daughter sleeps, and no, I'm damned if I'm going to get an even more stressful job just to give you more time off!"

I don't think this needs to be a gender issue. Surely the gender is irrelevent - the SAHP on this thread, moaning about having a difficult time and wanting childcare provided, while at the same time wanting another child once this one starts school to avoid having to get back to work, is taking the piss. Would be the same if it were a woman.

I think it's weird people refering to having a child as an excuse to not go back to work. Maybe he actually just wants another child! Plus it's hardly like bringing up children is easy!

I find it weird too plopplopquack - the only reason for wanting another child should be that you want another child! But the OP made it clear that her husband has no wish to work, and likes his life at home, and is hoping that another child will extend the time that he feels 'justified' in continuing like this

I don't see this as a SAHM/WOHM issue but rather as an inbalance in input/output of the relationship.

Both partners put time and effort into the working part of the week - the OP does so at work and the DH does so at home with the childcare. Presumably the purpose of this is so that they can enjoy the remaining time (evenings and weekends) as a family. I don't think there is a problem with having a discussion about how hard each partner is finding it - some SAHPs never get a second to themselves while their WOH partner actually has quite a lot of stress-free time at work; in other households, with a young, very chilled-out baby for example, the WOH partner might be dead on their feet while the SAHP actually has about 4 hours a day while the baby naps. I think that it should be completely appropriate for one partner to be able to say to the other 'Look, you say the baby is napping 4 hours a day. Can you try to get the laundry/vacuuming/whatever done in that time so we don't have to worry about it at the weekend' without immediatley being met with a screech of 'I didn't give up work to be your skivvy'.

It is in both partners' interests for the free time to be as free as possible and I sometimes think people get so caught up in the rights and wrongs of it that they forget they are working towards the same end. I knew a couple from my antenatal group - he worked long hours and she was a SAHM. She categorically refused to do any housework whatsoever on the basis that "her job" was looking after the baby. The problem was that he then spent his evenings and weekends doing all the housework and never got a second to himself at all. She did not see any inequality in this. i don't think it matters who does what as long as both partners are working roughly as hard as each other.

It sounds like the OP's DH wants to take more out of the partnership than he is putting in - he is getting both weekend lie-ins and finding time for a hobby that is being paid for out of the family pot, and now wants to drastically reduce his contribution in terms of childcare at the OP's expense. It wouldn't make any difference to me whether the SAHP was a man or a woman - this is clearly not fair on the OP. If he steps down his childcare and she has to up her hours to compensate then the family time is reduced and she finishes up with almost no time for herself at all.

It seems to be almost taboo to suggest that a SAHP might not be pulling their weight - not all of them do. If the OP's DH does what he wants to do then I think she can quite properly say that he is not pulling his weight and say that something has to give elsewhere.

Good post kungfupanda.

I don't see it as a gender issue either.

If one partner isn't pulling their weight, then they are being unreasonable, and that's the case whether they're at home or working. I completely agree that it's almost taboo to suggest that a SAHP might be a bit of a slacker. There are amazing SAHP who have a lot on their plate and work very hard to manage it all - but there are also some who do it as an 'easy option'. Just as in the workplace, some people pull their weight, and go the extra mile, while others don't.

In this case, the SAHP is being very unfair on the other partner

Agree with KFP - it is what a lot of us have been saying!.... but I think Newbee is leaving us too it now!

'too it now?' LOL 'to it now'

DH has been SAHD for 5 years. I completely understand the guilt and the feeling of being ungrateful.

While I'm grateful to him for staying at home (I found mat leave very hard work) and I praise him to everyone about how he looks after the kids and house, I often wish I'd stayed at home.

He cleans the house on a Friday. And that's it. He does a lousy job. He gets arsey when I clean. He never took the dc anywhere - they're now at school. He sits around all day on Twitter.

He is an artist. It is like a VERY expensive hobby. About £150-200 a month and he sells nothing. I don't even like his art.

But I love him. I love that the dc have such a fab relationship with him and he trys - he really does.

If he had suggested nursery when they were younger I would have laughed in his face. How dare your dh? Really. He cooks and washes up. Whooppee! Ugh sorry not very helpful. I suppose I'm angry at my dh too....

Sorry everyone have been mad busy and used to threads dying a death after a day.

I really hadn't expected this level of response and debate from everyone.

It's definitely been interesting to read, and it would appear that I'm not being entirely unreasonable (woo hoo) :)

I think DP and I need to have a chat about this and get both sides out in the open so we can sort it out and tyry and make both of us happy.

I know he can be a bit of a lazy bugger, and it may well be a case of as some of you have pointed out that neither of us is feeling our contribution is being acknowledged.

But thank you everyone for taking the time to comment, it's really given me a lot to think about.

Newbee - let us know how you get on :)

MorningTownRide He never took the kids ANYWHERE?! That's bad!

So basically you are doing your job in the week and his "job" at the weekends as well.

OH and I have had the same argument over and over again. I am a SAHM. He thinks I laze about, but I don't (a whole other thread), and at the weekends I still do all the stuff for the kids, e.g. change bums, get food, get them dressed, all the boring stuff because I know he is stressed at work, plus if I waited for him to do it the kids would still be in their pyjamas at bedtime from the morning.
Sometimes he takes over, but it is rare. This morning for example, I needed to clean the car, he then ranted about how i hadn't cleaned the bathroom, so I did that first. When I finally cleaned the car, he had a strop and said I hadn't done anything for the children today.

It sounds like your DH is happy for you to go out to work, but then at the weekends go back to the traditional woman's role while he has two days off.

I remember reading on MN once someone said that both parents have it hard when children are small, so time off isn't a right. Or something to that effect. I really try to remember that.

sorry, i thought I had read the whole thread, but I hadn't. Hope I haven't repeated what has been said before.

It seems to me there is a lack of partnership in this.

You do a stressful 5 day a week job. So does he.

Outside of that time then share the chores that need doing. Share the child care and make sure each other gets time for themselves and their hobbies. If that isn't happening then it doesn't sound like you are wPeking together and respecting each other.

I just had to jump on and update you all, I made a comment about DP taking DD downstairs and letting me have a lie in on Sunday morning. But never expected him to do it.

So woke up at 7:30am, Noticed DD's monitor was on, but not flashing the green light that shows she's breathing/alive. DP was not in bed, so I get out of bed and go to DD's room, she's not there, so I start to get a bit panicy and rush downstairs.

There they both are having a play in the lounge so I did get an extra hour in bed, but could have had longer if I hadn't been so panicy.

I was amazed, but I was in such a good mood all day, and didn't start off my day in my normal stroppy grumpy mood.

So thank you all for the advice, it's going to be hard for the next month as we're away visting people and will have DD in our room, but we really need to continue this way it's made such a difference.

That's really great nbm!

She shoots - she scores!!!!

Next time when you say something 'expect' it to happen!