this vituperation reserved for young parents

[MitchiestInge]

for young mothers I suppose is what I mean, since people often only mention the father as a bit of an afterthought. Can someone explain why this special scorn is saved for young and unmarried women, particularly when plenty of us here have reproduced within really quite grim marriages?

And the way I see it, we have the rest of our lives now to concentrate on our careers and education.

I kind of agree with this. I would NEVER have intentionally become pregnant at 21, but now that it''s happened, I do feel that we now have kids 'out of the way' (though we may have another) and can focus on our careers.

Part of me is glad that I won't end up at 35, realising that our lives are completely incompatible with children. Also, I think it has made me more motivated: life was pretty cushy before and I've never had that determination and fierce drive that I have now. DS was definitely good for me.

Personally I think girls get more scorn because they have 2 chances to make a decision and potentially 'fix' things - either by using contraception or in early pregnancy with a termination. The father involved had only 1 chance.

So this means having a baby is more often than not the choice of the mother only. Sadly this choice is often grounded in sentimentality without consideration to life circumstances and means.

The father just has to lump it.

I think that is part of the issue - that people believe in these 'rules' about having kids at 30+, but this generation is the only one who have lived by these rules. Whether or not the rules are going to work out for them as a group remains to be seen.

Thats exactly is Maraih

I didn't intentionally get pregnant at 19, but I was please none the less. And me and DH are pretty certain that we only want 1 child anyway. Things may change in the future, but I can't see it.

But that's the thing, as we are young, our lives and careers will already be built around DD. People seem to struggle more when they have to face major disruption and possibly change their standards of living, but for us, things will only ever get better and we already have DD along for the ride.

I accidently fell pregnant at 19, feckless? No, but as someone else said no contraception is 100% and that can fail at any age.

So that doesn't explain the vituperation (I've learned a new word and I'm using it lol)

I find it incredible that had I chose not to have DD people would have liked me more. Same if I had chose to stay in a horrible abusive relationship, that would have been alright to some people.

I found myself pregnant and did the right thing, the mature and responsible thing and hate what I've had to put up with ever since

I think it's mainly ignorance as some people feel like there is only one correct way to do things (probably the way they did it themselves) so they think that unless you are 30 years old, got a mortgage, career etc then its irresponsible to have children first but there's always going to be more than one way to do things so its just close mindedness on their part.

Also a bit of jealousy as someone said they feel like why did it work out for these younger mothers even though they did not "play by the rules" that attitude sounds a bit bitter, probably that's the same people who presume they are all "on benefits" so possibly its a resentment thing cos they feel as though they are paying for others to do things when they have been 'responsible' themselves by waiting till they are much older (despite the fact not all the young parents are on benefits anyway!)

I also think in some cases people must have been immature themselves at that age so if they see a 16 year old or even 20 year old or whatever they think "i could not have coped with a baby at that age" so therefore presume that no one else will be able to cope, however maybe that young mother has more maturity for her age than they did.

I have a friend who after teenage pregnancy, packed up and left the dad who had become violent and abusive.

She is a fantastic parent who works really hard and it was obviously the right thing to do.

But sometimes when I mention her people say "oh what a shame it didn't work out with the dad."

No! It's not a shame AT ALL. The only thing that's a shame that he IS the dad and it isn't somebody who deserves to be one!

I think that there are 'rules', you go to school, you get your a levels, you get a job or go to uni, you get your 'career' youu buy a house, you get married and you have your babies.

That is definitely what was expected of me, or what I was led into expecting for myself.

Then people can get (justifiably) upset if life doesn't work out after you spend 15 years trying not to get pregnant.

OTOH a person who gets pregnant at 16 must have support, from the state or their family to raise that child. Maybe people following the 'rules' get pissed off that others get given what they work for.

(I'm half being devil's advocate btw.... please don't judge me as a benefit basher)

I don't know.

I think it's to do with there being assumptions about the order in which you do things. Job, relationship, child. But in the grand scheme of things as long as the child is happy and healthy and the parents are still able to get on and fulfill their potential in some way, who cares? And let's face it, our bodies are at their optimum to bear children in our 20s - not in their 30s and 40s.

But Nagoo you still have to work bloody hard! It's just at a different time of your life. I hadn't finished college when I had my DD, so I'm going back and I'm paying for it myself, supporting myself, not expecting any handouts. Not everyone who has a baby young, sits on their arse for their whole lives, and in some ways it's more work to be successful if you don't follow the rules, because you have to make your own path in life. It's not an easy life by any stretch, but it's definitely a worthwhile one.

DH and I had DD at 21, I think there was a lot of assumption that we got a lot of help from the government, or that our parents must take DD a lot. Why? We're adults, we're perfectly capable of looking after ourselves and DD. I find it bizarre.

I agree that DH finishing Uni and me finding work has been more difficult than it would be otherwise. But we support ourselves and always have and only fallen back on benefits when times have been really hard, the same as any other family.

Some teenage parents will have their times being really hard right at the beginning when the baby is tiny. But that doesn't mean they will stay on benefits forever.

I got pregnant at 16 and a mum at 17. I finished my year at college and then went back to complete my A Levels and would like to go to Uni. I'm also still with DD's father and he is just about to finish Uni.

The amount of abuse I've received is astounding. From being called "Teenage fucking slut" by strangers in the street, to being told I'm a shit mother, to snide comments from health visitors telling me I deserve my depression and loneliness because I shouldn't have kept my baby. I also get the whole "I bet you are a benefit scrounging whore whose knocked up again" and "how many men could be your DD's father."

It used to really get to me and still does a bit. I don't think I'm any worse than other parents because turning 20 or 30 will not magically turn someone into a wonderful parent. My DP and I have done everything in our power to give our daughter a great life and as great an upbringing as we can.

Gosh Abcinthia that sounds horrible, people can be so awful. Good on you for rising above it, you sound like your doing really well.

jeanvaljean - you are of course assuming that everyone thinks having a baby once you are pg is a 'choice'. I wouldn't have an abortion if I had consensual sex within a relationship. I don't judge anyone who does but for me it wouldn't be a choice.

Judging a woman more harshly as she has a chance to abort her baby is pretty weak!

Abcinthia, that is horrible, jus goes to show how disgusting people can be.

Well done for ignoring them - you sound like a great mum.

I don't know either really.

My H left me for a 21 year old. I'm now a divorced lone parent to two toddlers, this thread highlights my fears on what people think of me who walk past me in the street. I try really hard not to let it bother me, but I do worry about what people think of me. I kept my wedding rings on my right hand instead for a while but in the end I decided to try and break free of worrying about what people thought and take them off. But it's always there at the back of my mind

People do glance at you, your children and then your wedding hand, despite the day and age we live in.

Going through what I have, has taught me not to judge though. I've learnt some hard lessons from what has been thrown at me in life. You cannot tell by looking at a person anything about them or what has happened in their life or who they are. I would have kept the baby if I'd got pregnant before marriage as well.

I suppose I'm not that young as I'm now 32 but even so the same judgey-ness seems to be there.

Abcinthia I know how you feel. I've had 11 years of it and it has got to me

I don't think it helps that I look so young (I still get asked for ID in supermarkets buying wine) and DD looks so old as she's very tall. But that can't explain everything or everyone

DD also gets comments at school and I don't believe for one minute it's coming from the kids, it's coming from their parents. She now tells everyone I was 20 when I had her (she gets asked a lot, not something I think kids are interested in so much come from their parents), that extra year, or in actual fact, 2 months lol does seem to make a lot of difference to people's reactions

bringonthegoat I second that. I also didn't consider there was another option once I was pregnant. I made the choice when I had sex, you always know pregnancy is a possibility. But I guess people have different views on abortion.

Thanks SequinsAndSparkles. I try to rise above it but sometimes people just go too far and it hurts so badly.

My experience of being a teenage mother is why I've been thinking of studying Midwifery at Uni so I could help other young mothers. I had a great teenage pregnancy specialist Midwife, who was a teenage mother herself, and she was so amazing and so supportive.

Thanks everyone for their nice comments. I crossed posted with a lot of them!

I had my DS when I was 18, my DD when I was 21 and I can honestly say I've never experienced any kind of scorn or negative comments. I wasn't a 'stereotypical teen mother' anyway, so even if they had looked down on me, I would have laughed to be honest. I

SandS - different opinions -yes, giving women a harder time as they could've aborted - no I'm happy to be a judgy pants wearer for that one. Agree with you about re mature attitude to sex.

I think attitudes to teenage parenthood are quite complex and may depend on where you live.

Where I am becoming a young mum is the norm really - education is poor, employment opportunities are limited and for many 15 or 16 year olds having a baby is no big deal. They have no real aspirations beyond being a mum, have no expectations beyond the immediate and cope pretty well with being young mums.

The benefit system means that you can not work, be a parent and not struggle unduly (not benefit-bashing at all, but it's very different to how it was in the 70s or 80s for example).

Interestingly, where I work (health centre in a deprived area) we see very little PND in young mums, far more in mums in their 30s. Young mums tend to have low expectations of parenthood (ie they're quite open minded and know what to expect having young siblings and larger than average families), they have lots of familial support often still living at home, no career to put on hold, lose or stall, and don't suffer financial loss as they had none to start with.

So I don't really understand why we are so anti- young parents. Most cope pretty well and are raising their children well.

I imagine the negativity is due to a perception that they are slappers, scroungers or wasters, contributing nothing to society but taking plenty. For some that may be true but for many it is far removed from the truth.