To think the atheists on MN are a bunch of miserable whingers

[GothAnneGeddes]

Every bloody week it's a new thread whining on about how terrible it is that there is religion in the world.

A prominent feature of such threads is the intolerance and stupidity of religious folk, yet threads by believers insulting atheists are very rare.

Besides, aren't you all meant to be so happy to be freed from the shackles of religion, that you're too busy having fun to moan?

UD I see yet again another leap of the imagination from you, based on some strange assumption. You really do like to fabricate things dont you? especially if it gives you a chance to be nasty and make yourself feel superior.

I never said "I never heard about foxholes". Its amazing people can imagine they read something. I mean, remembering something said incorrectly is one thing- but when something is written down and you can actually go back and read it... baffaling.

I would have thought as such a fine, well-educated person you could read what is actually written.Or you just so well educated you like to read between the lines and then attack people for it?

Agnostic here, just wanting to pop in my experiences re. Lack of religion and an assumed lack of morals.
One memorable experience of mine in early secondary school was being asked, for the reasons of debate, who in the class did not believe in an afterlife. I raised my hand expecting to be in the majority as it was not an overtly religious school. I looked around and was the only pupil with my hand up- I was immediately set upon by the other students with shouts of 'what's to stop you just murdering everyone then?' and other illogical statements. I mumbled 'because I'm a nice person' and kept my head down.
Just thought I'd share!
As you were!

I see slug.

Well our experiences and walks in life our very different. I have not worked in that community. I don't really see their question is anything but a genuine question though? I cannot speak for them but I cannot imagine they mean any malice in it?

The probably are just curious because you were different.

You said you had "never heard any religious person say that", straight after Snorbs's post about "atheists in foxholes". But you're just quibbling now because you have run out of arguments. I'm more concerned about all my unanswered points on the various religious/atheism threads here - there are enough of them.

It's not just "a couple" of experiences. Atheists having no morals really is a quite common accusation. Google will bring up a lot of evidence for that if you're interested.

Splitting hairs about how big a proportion of the religious believe that atheists are amoral is beside the point I was trying to make.

GAG was arguing that atheism had no place in RE lessons. I was trying to make the point that I believe it has if for no other reason than to allow the students to learn that some of the lies they may have been told about atheists are not necessarily true. If a child is brought up in a religious household then they may never have heard that atheism is even an option.

Just because I have never heard a relgious person say that in RL as a means of "attack" or in anyway attack an atheist does not equate to me saying I have never heard of that expression. I have also heard "no atheist on the battlefield". I don't think it's meant as an 'attack'. I really don't.

There are many expressions in the world. If you have not happened to hear an expression does that mean your stupid? Because by your reasoning unless you have already heard every expression and saying that exsists then you are uneducated. Seems ridiculous to me.

Is it a trait of an atheist to assume you know exaclty what is going on in someone else's mind? Because people like to jump to some wild conclusions about me though "quibbing" is deffo a first.

I do not know what your posts are. I am not following you around on the threads I am sorry.

...and coincidentally, as I posted below, my 10 year old ds asked that very question (why they didn't cover "non-belief") in his RME classes.

"Non-believing" was his term: not mentioned by us because we are not interested enough in religion to talk about it at home.

We have however talked about the problems of Rangers and Celtic, protestants and catholics, in front of him - because that is a very real problem where we live that he needs to be aware of (and which was why he was not allowed to support either team when he expressed an interest shortly after starting school).

Snorbs I am sorry, but you and I have had just had very different experiences. Sounds like mine has been far rounded.

Religious people also get the usual cliched battering. I am quite surprised how vile some people on here have been- but I guess with a screen to hide behind people can be more extreme. (Not aimed at you, just a minority of posters who have been quite repugant)

Thought for the Day often raises the idea that religion is necessary for morality, which is profoundly irritating, and actually I think some of the Christian commentators on there do Christianity no favours, tbh - the speakers from other religions tend to be less po-faced, I find.

Rose, how have your experiences been "more rounded" than snorbs?

Roseflower, given that you have said you haven't heard some common criticisms of atheism I'd suggest your experiences have been substantially less rounded than mine.

SNORBS

FOR THE LAST TIME

IN REAL LIFE I HAVE NEVER SEEN A RELIGIOUS PERSON ATTACK AN ATHEIST.

I NEVER SAID I HAVENT HEARD OF THEM.

I dont know, i feel sorry for those who are atheists actually, they dont know what they are missing having faith. unfortunalty you either have it or you dont, you cant choose or create faith

In RL, I have never come across preconceptions that non-religious people have no moral compass.

Not that it is something that would come up in normal conversation as it is just so unimportant to us (religion that is, not morals ). We do tease one friend about her devout Catholicism - but she gives as good as she gets .

However, on Mumsnet, I have. I have seen threads where people have queried how you can know right from wrong if you don't beleive in (a) God, or that religious people are more altruistic than non-relgious people.

I can also remember at Uni, friends being told that they were going to be damned because they had been given the opportunity "to see the light" by born again "friends" and that if they didn't take it, that meant that they would burn in hell

Just because I don't believe in a God doesn't mean I don't believe there's something more than life on Earth.

I actually do believe in ghosts and spirits but also in science.

I have very good morals (pretty much all metioned as the 10 commandments) yet I believe that religion and God-like figures was created by humans to control the masses and to wield power.

Who says someone cannot be good and have morals and live to the letter of the law even though they are an atheist?

If you want to find instances of branding atheists as immoral you need look no further than MN where people are often saying that of us.

The general message is that without god to tell us right from wrong we can't possibly know what to do.

My reply to people who would say such a thing is that atheists must decide for ourselves what is right. You can assume then that any good act by an atheist is a reflection of their character while a good act by a religious person will be (by their own admission) what their church feels is a good thing to do.

In addition many sermons will tell you that you should do good things because you will be rewarded handsomely by god. Atheists don't do it for the reward.

"I dont know, i feel sorry for those who are atheists actually, they dont know what they are missing having faith. unfortunalty you either have it or you dont, you cant choose or create faith" knitted breast I don't want you to feel sorry for me.

I believed (as I was brought up to believe) in God until I was a teen so I wasn't missing a faith; just realised that we had all been duped into believing something that was all made up.

Do you honestly believe that God made someone called Adam and then made a woman called Eve and then somehow, without Eve having sex with her own sons, other people were born??? .

The bible is so full of totally unrealistic happenings that have never since existed (water into wine etc) that it makes me cringe to think the Churches of today can still brainwash people into thinking that it all happened.

In addition many sermons will tell you that you should do good things because you will be rewarded handsomely by god. Atheists don't do it for the reward.

Onager exactly!

"You can assume then that any good act by an atheist is a reflection of their character while a good act by a religious person will be (by their own admission) what their church feels is a good thing to do.In addition many sermons will tell you that you should do good things because you will be rewarded handsomely by god. Atheists don't do it for the reward.
"

Please can I see you evidence that every religious person only does something good because 'church tells them' and 'for the reward'.

If an atheist is stated to be immoral they throw their hands up in the air. Yet its these very statements that also imply all religious people are immoral because they only do something becuase they are told.

Well maybe if that is true you should be glad for all the 'brainwashing' because without all the 'being told what to do' there would be far more murders and rapings wouldnt there if theese awful immoral people weren't such sheep?

roseflower of course nobody is saying all religious people - that would be silly.

And actually, I do have a very good friend who is extremely religious and she does do things because she feels that God thinks it's the right thing to do even if she doesn't. She's an intelligent person but seems to be living her life in a certain way because she feels that it's the right thing to doin God's eyes, yet not necessarily in her own eyes.

Roseflower: has it escaped your notice that religious organisations are happy to exempt themselves from what they consider their imaginary friends' laws and rules are, on occasion? Such as 'Do not kill - oh, unless the other person is an Enemy Of The Faith'?

The point of religions used to be to explain the workings of the world, sort of, though the primary point of religions remains what it always has been: to give privileges to some people and convince the rest that they deserve their less privileged status. Because Great Pumpkin says so.
Oh and as to all the bleating about why it's 'only' or 'mostly' Christians and Muslims who get the verbal kickings on threads like these it's not because their mythology is any more stupid or even that much more pernicious than the others - it's because Muslim and Christian organisations cause the most trouble for other people and claim the most privilege for themselves. While a working knowledge of the christian myths may help UK residents understand the culture of the country, a working knowledge of Norse, Greek and Roman myths is just as necessary but belief in Thor, Apollo or Venus is no more or less stupid than belief in Jesus or Allah.

Springchicken I have question for you.

In the last 7 days how has religion adversly effected your day to day life?

Roseflower - vile? really, where?

Himalaya in general, luckily only by a small number.

I would be intrested to know from anyone how religion has personally effected them adversly in their day to day life?

Most people will agree that the bible isnt literal, you have to take into consideration the culture of the time it was penned. I didnt think the question of it being literal was even relvent. I am not christian, why on earth would god have a son? especially as in the bible when his supporters call him the son of god he asks them not to as he says he is only a messenger from god.

you dont have to beleive in the big 3 to be called religious, every single avenue and religion leads to god anyway-its up to you how you relate to him, via nature or the quran.