To think the atheists on MN are a bunch of miserable whingers

[GothAnneGeddes]

Every bloody week it's a new thread whining on about how terrible it is that there is religion in the world.

A prominent feature of such threads is the intolerance and stupidity of religious folk, yet threads by believers insulting atheists are very rare.

Besides, aren't you all meant to be so happy to be freed from the shackles of religion, that you're too busy having fun to moan?

That's a fair point MistyValley. There is an enormous number of different religions out there. It's impracticable to have a school for each faith in every area.

Saying that, I bet a Church of the SubGenius faith school would have some absolutely awesome religious assemblies

Misty. You said there was a lack of schools in your area. I said do something about it.

I really have no idea where you got that other stuff from. Sorry.

Actually there isn't a lack of schools in my area, I'm fortunate in that there are three reasonably good community schools and one faith school within a two mile radius. However I have more than one set of friends who have had to do the whole 'fake church-goer' thing and I am appalled that this situation exists.

Re the other stuff, it was more in response to the fact that you have said that it is a 'right' of religious people to be able to send their children to a faith school, and that atheists are seeking to remove these rights. A logical extension of people having 'rights' for their children to attend state faith schools is that every person of faith should have that choice.

No one should be faking a belief to benefit themselves. Your right, it is appalling.

The idea that every religion had a nearby school would be great.

snobear/hugemanatee - don't worry about the schools thing- only 1 out of the top 25 schools last year was actually a faith school, hardly all the highest achieving schools then.

I think a large part of the problem here is people ascribing 'atheists' as non-believers. There are faiths/religions that do not have gods or deities - at least half a billion people in the world are buddhist or jainist.

I am guessing paganists and wiccans also are non-deity worshipping?

Possibly great for some, but totally unaffordable and impractical for it to be paid for by the taxpayer.

My last post was in response to Roseflower.

It is a utopian idea though. Maybe one day, who knows.

roseflower - I would love to know where your DD attended a secular school- I presume you are outside the UK?

My local faith schools prioritise children with parents of other faiths over children with parents of no faith- it is still discrimination.

Children should not be subject to discrimination over things they have no control of (ie parent's ethnicity, religion, gender, economic circumstances etc)

@Tortoise @cantspel Agreed

It's a particular bug bear of mine really. Some people who consider themselves liberal and open-minded being anything but with regards to religion.

However, the point has been well made that not all atheists are Dawkins worshipping wingers as well. I think it is partly generational. My atheist/ag friends are more tolerant of my catholocism than older, middle-aged types.

Im sorry Darkskies Im not one for giving personal identifiable information about my family on forum

no worries, I don't want your village - it's just I was trying to make the point that you couldn't be discussing the British education system, as there are no secular schools in the UK.

Roseflower

^"I don't see how it fair that you think people of faith should lose their school to suit you? You have a choice, why remove theirs?"

-----

"No one should be faking a belief to benefit themselves. Your right, it is appalling."^

The only choice in a lot of areas IS to fake religion to get your child into a good school. Otherwise how can you say that atheists have a choice. The only option is the less good sate school (which, as has already been pointed out, is not secular anyway). I don't really understand the need for separate Christian faith schools when all state schools are Christian in nature anyway. I have more understanding for the need for more minority religions.

frantic51, loving your post about Atheism being a faith like Hinduism. You might want to look it up in a dictionary as it would seem you misunderstood.

My position is simple enough.

I have no reason to believe that any of the following things are true. They are listed in no particular order.

Fairies, Jehovah, Jesus, leprechauns, moons made of cheese, Allah, Thor, 6ft talking bunny rabbits, Brahman or giant monkeys that move mountains (I forget the name of that one)

I don't actually mind if other people want to believe in them, but a couple of those are represented by groups which wield political power and use it to block the rights of others to live their lives as they see fit. Therefore I will at every opportunity point out the internal contradictions in these 'beliefs' and the dangers to society that the groups represent.

I'd also like to point out most religious persecution (as opposed to disagreeing with you) is of one group by another group.

Was going to post but it's all been said just now by onagar, so I'll toddle off and have a .

Atcually Darkskies I knew exactly what you were up too. Why not just say it kindly? It's good you picked up a mistaken word, but it was one word.

Nobody is forcing that atheist to be in that area. Shouldn't that be a prime consideratrion for any parent when choosing an area to live- the schools?

The parent knew for many years they would need to choose a school as soon as dc came along, and if there wasnt one appropaite school then dont stay in that area.

Or do stay but be prepared to travel.

Why not go private or home school. Heck,you even start your own schools these days. To say it's your only choice is not acurate. You choose to live there.

In Scotland there is indeed a system analagous to the one Roseflower suggests - which results in a lot of waste and helps perpetuate sectarianasm.

We have a separate but parallel, fully state funded, Catholic schooling system, for which you have an automatic geographically defined catchment in the same way that you have an automatic, geographically defined catchment for the non-denominational schools.

The only problem is that the mjaoirty of the catholic schools in Glasgow are half empty (and even then, many of them are 90% Muslim/Sikh). However, woe betide the council if it attempts to close any of them due to falling rolls - there are sit-ins and lots of angry parents.

There has been a number of recent experiments in "shared campuses", where the catholic and the non-denom school have shared facilites like playgrounds and kitchens - but these have been strongly resisted by the Catholic church (why? because, shock horror, the children might actually play with each other?? )

There are no "Church of England" schools but there is one Jewish Primary School, I think there is one Church of Scotland school - and there are calls for a Muslim school.

That wasn't me that suggested anything prettybird.

Gosh I do randomly get excused of lots of things-

Im unfair to fairies.

I suggested a Muslim/Catholic/ etc school.

Nought do with me.

Think I'll have the blummin'

roseflower- some people do not have much or indeed any choice about where they live, particularly as you move down the socio-economic scale- if you are reliant on social housing, you have to accept where they house you!
Others live where they do for work reasons (eg forces families, people in highly specialised fields).

I do travel to educate my children, as my 3 closest schools are faith schools. This is my choice- 2 of the schools certainly do not have waiting lists - I do not wish to have my children indoctrinated.

some discussion about temporal lobe epilepsy and visions ofgod though I notice the percentage of the population who don't experience it is 20% rather than the 40% in the single, small study I witnessed.

the god helmet You've got to love the name

I apologise Roseflower - it was indeed Mistyvalley who suggested it to show how ridiculous it would be because where do you draw the line?

But to follow up what I was saying: the remnants of such a system in Scotland are a) expensive and b) encourage (or at the very least perpetuate) the cancer of sectarianism that we suffer from in the West of Scotland and c) make it difficult to justify denying the Muslims their own school.

Why should the Catholics and Jews be allowed state schools and the Muslims not?

:(

Onagar Sorry, what exactly are you advising me to look up in a dictionary? I don't follow?

slug Interesting. Thanks for posting. {grin] @ Dawkins: "That such faith exists is a by-product of enhanced intelligence."

It's often interested me that people who subscribe to the Christian myth systems get so squawky when their imaginary friend is compared to pixies, fairies, ghosts and unicorns. Belief in the latter nonexistent creatures is just as long-lasting as belief in Jesus, Allah, Ganesh and the rest - Muslim cultures have their djinns and dybbuks etc too. To a rational person, elves and dragons and horoscopes are neither more nor less ridiculous than gods. Is it because belief in spooks and funny animals doesn't seem to be bound up so closely with reinforcing the privilege of some groups over others that they haven't got the political clout to affect the lives of people not interested in them?

As one of the people on here well-known for being an atheist I can honestly say that I don't ever remember starting a thread out it. The ones I have contributed to recently have all been to do with faith schools, or someone saying something about "reasonable doubt".

Isn't it supposed to be the case that people whose voices the mainstream think "shouldn't" be heard are referred to as whingers, shrill, etc.? That's what the feminists tell us, anyway...