to want some space from my au pair.

[LadyDisdain]

DH thinks we should invite the au pair to join us if we have friends round to the house for supper or brunch. I would prefer if we did our own thing.

She is happy and settled and has lots of her own friends. I would like to be able to socialise with mine without her being present because she is quite, erm, chatty.

DH thinks I'm mean to not want to include her. I want some boundaries. She spends a lot of time with us. I don't mind her coming in to say hello and chatting for 10 or 15 minutes, but surely we are entitled to some privacy? I wouldn't join in if her friends visited, though would meet them and be perfectly friendly.

Am I unreasonable?

I have had half a dozen au-pairs over the years. When the children were smaller if we had guests, the au-pairs job was to look after the children/babysit. The au-pair ate with the children Mon-Fri and with us on Saturdays and Sundays (unless we were entertaining). I would have had no difficulty in inviting the au-pair to join us with our friends for a glass of wine but on the understanding that it was a private supper or dinner later. This was never a problem and usually the au-pair would have wanted to chill in the sitting room or her room or go out anyway. We found quite quickly that Swedish ones were brilliant because they all did lots of stuff via the Swedish Church.

It can be a fine line but I found that once they settled in, after about 6 weeks, they wanted to do their own thing anyway.

But she gets very comfortable accommodation and food to make up the difference. I've done the sums and what we don't pay, she uses in what would be "rent" and groceries. Cooked meals, actually.

Does having an au pair mean that we're not entitled to socialise on our own?

Oncemai, I like the idea of a glass of wine and then do your own thing.

As I said, I don't mind her chatting for a little bit, but it really does change the nature of the interaction as Waterrat says.

LAdy D...I know...my mate is the type who will socialise with anyone. Even at 18 she would be happy in any company. But I think the important thing here is that your Aupair be given the choice.

She's not a nanny. She's an Aupair. Very different.

If you do not want her at the dinner, give her something else to do.

Suggest she goes out with her friends, perhaps to the cinema, give her some cash, tell her the later back the better, and enjoy your dinner with your friends.

So as Waterrat said, tell her something along the lines of, "we are having a dinner party on (whatever date), just adults so wont be able to cook for you - I can leave you something or you might want to go out. Here is some cash" etc

Or, ask her to babysit.

LadyD....kind of...an Aupair is a guest who is paid pocket money to help out. She's not the same as staff really.

It's almost like having an exchange student...you wouldn't leave them out would you?

If you want to socialise on your own then go out.

*LadyD....kind of...an Aupair is a guest who is paid pocket money to help out. She's not the same as staff really.

It's almost like having an exchange student...you wouldn't leave them out would you?

If you want to socialise on your own then go out*

Paying her to go out for the evening is even worse IMO. Having an Au Pair means you have to adjust your way of living and if you want to socialise on your own , perhaps go out.

Grrrr bold didn't work!

YANBU.

This is why the sodding term should be banned.

She is an employee under law. You need to have a contract and if she earns over the thresholds pay tax and NI but most APs don't earn that so the point doesn't arise. Legally they are 'no' different to a nanny. Au pairs are not typically underpaid - they get pocket money (approx £70) plus room and board for 25 hours. A live in nanny with the same level of qualifications and experience might be looking at £130-180 more for an additional 35 hours work, giving them an hourly pay rate over and above what an au pair of around £3 an hour, which is not much above the deal of £70 for 25 hours. The the old idea of a cultural exchange and living as part of a family is bust. Au pairs don't exist in the UK any more. It's up to each individual family to negotiate the boundaries. There's no right for the au pair to receive the same treatment that used to be enforced or even any legal expectation to provide that on the part of the employing family any more...(exceptions apply to A2 nationals)

BUT many au pairs come over not anticipating that and, whilst employing families have made the shift, the UK is fairly unique in this respect so au pairs coming from other countries do still have the nice cosy familial expectation. Either you're upfront about how that isn't going to happen from the start or you play to their expectations and all that entails.

So if the dynamic is set up that she joins in etc she isn't BU to expect to be able to do that when you have guests unless you warn her in advance, at which point she should have the decency to respect that, much in the way I used to when my parents were entertaining guests to dinner. Providing pizza, wine and a DVD would probably be greatly appreciated but really YANBU at all to say 'look, we have people coming over so we're doing a special dinner for us two and them, you can eat with the kids or do something for yourself - if you want anything in particular pop it on the list and we'll get it in for you'.

Many families in their house rules have something about the au pair not hanging around all the time. It's good to encourage them to be slightly independent anyway!

If it's more if a family occasion you might have to sit through it or bribe her to go out though. But in short YANBU at all to want some space.

The official recommendation are:

"Au pairs are expected to work for five days a week, up to a maximum of five hours per day. They should have two days off a week, but be available to babysit for two nights a week. In return for this, they get their board and lodging and a recommended allowance of £55 per week. EEA nationals are allowed to work up to 35 hours per week as "au pairs plus" and earn correspondingly more (£80-85).

With a live in nanny you would have to pay for food and provide accommodation plus more money.

"Live in nannies often received an agreed upon salary rather than a strict per hour wage. Often this salary is broken down into weekly sums. On average, nannies in central London make the highest weekly amount (over £300), followed by nannies in other areas of London and the surrounding counties (approximately £280), followed by nannies in the rest of the country (approximately £260)."

Okay nannies can legally work for longer, but it is more expensive to hire a nanny than a au pair.

If you had a family member lodging with you - perhaps one you didn't know well - then you should treat your au pair how you would treat this family member.

when I worked as an au pair a long time back, I was included in all family outings if I wanted to, but not in the semi-formal dinners my host parents hosted regularly. I was fine with that and happy to stay in my generous room having a take away after taking the children to bed.

tricky OP, I can see both sides of the argument.

The problem is that she is a member of the family but you don't feel you can be as blunt with her as you would be with your own offspring.

If you had a, say, 17 yo DD (given you say your AP is a bit immature) who talked a lot about herself, and was really too chatty, and didn't seem to understand how to socialise with a group of adults, how would you deal with it? Perhaps post in the teenagers topic to get ideas?

I met up with a friend recently and his flatmate (who I've never met) tagged along with us, my god she never shut up the whole evening, she's late 20s but came across a decade younger. It was all about her, she didn't draw breath and my friend and I just didn't get a chance to have our own conversation catching up on each other's news etc. So I can sympathise with you and your friends as it is very annoying when this happens!

what about offering that she invites a friend of hers for DVD, pizza (provided by you)? She would probably enjoy that and she would be out of your way. Have you got another reception room where they could stay?

I was an Au Pair at 18 in the US . I was allowed to join in all things family related at home, however I baby sat if the patents went out. We use to eat out as a family at least twice a week . I went on vacations with them to visit their family, and wasn't always there to look after the baby , but also to participate in their life.

If my family had friends over , I was allowed to join them . I would for a bit , then I took my leave to give them space , as I would have done if my real parents had friends over . Maybe she doesn't want to spend the evening with you ?

I believe if you make the choice to have an au pair then they really do need to be treated like a guest or family member , that is the point of them , otherwise have a nanny or child minder.

This won't help you immidiatly OP, but I woudl suggest in the future if you want to keep your life very seperate form the aupair that you make it clear in you initial "au pair wanted" advert.

This will mean you get someone who has a similar mindset to yours who won't feel left out.

It sounds like your current au pair enjoys spending time with you and your friends so she will probably feel hurt if you begin leaving her out.

I don't think OP should treat her like an older DD. She should treat her like a distant relative.

I am interested what you pay her and how many hours she works. If you pay her what you would pay a nanny then of course its fine to treat her like an employee. But IME many people exploit au pairs as cheap childcare.

But skinit - you say 'if you had an exchange student you wouldn't leave them out' - why not?

The point is, someone is staying in your house, under whatever guidelines - ie. exchange/ au pair - you are entitled to your own time - as they are entitled to theirs! The OP usually includes the au pair but wants dinner with only her friends now and again. surely it's comparable to having a daughter that age - when I was that age I would not have assumed I was invited to sit through dinner with a group of adults - weither it was my parents or if I had been staying elsewhere.

I think a 21 year old should be aware enough to leave the room and leave a group of adults, who are not her close friends and are not her age, together. As has been said before, if the au pair had friends over, it would surely be rude of the OP to permenantly sit with them knowing that they were meeting to spend time together.

If an exchange student was staying with me, I would not assume that they had to be involved in any socialising I did in the house - eg. if a close friend came round for coffee and we wanted to have a chat about our lives, it's simply not true that you would have to involve an au pair - ditto a lunch/ dinner part...

The thing is that I do like spending some time with her. Sometimes we all go out for coffee or a walk or hang out in the garden. For fun.

But I would sometimes like to have friends round and not have her part of that. For example, a friend that was here for supper recently is having IVF and I would have loved to have talked to her about that but couldn't because the au pair was present. So it's not like having a family member because she doesn't have equivalent relationships with our friends, iyswim.

It's about balance really, and I wish she had the emotional intelligence to read that.

Can you not talk to her about it amd use the IVF situation as an example? Say that while in general you're happy with the setup that sometimes your friends need to talk to you about personal stuff/you want to talk to them but it's a bit awkward because she's there.

That way you might help her develop bit ofemotional intelligence along the way.

She can't read your mind, and its unfair of you to question her emotional intelligence because of that.

It sounds like neither of you understand the relationship, which was up to you explain in the first place.

I agree that she should be polite enough to give you space with your friends - people are being very unrealistic saying any private conversations should take place outside the house!

I think you now need to work on the basis that she simply doesn't have that emotional intelligence yet and tell her very clearly when you want your own space.

I think a 21 year old should be aware enough to leave the room and leave a group of adults, who are not her close friends and are not her age, together. As has been said before, if the au pair had friends over, it would surely be rude of the OP to permenantly sit with them knowing that they were meeting to spend time together.

Perhaps that's the solution? Ask the au pair to invite some friends and watch a DVD like a 'night in'
away from the dinner party so you don't disturb each other?

Thank you Lesley for those recommendations. I was not aware that there were 2 types of au-pairs.

IMO the "au-pair plus" is exploitative. That's a corresponding hourly rate of about £2.43 with the family's expectation that the 'au-pair plus' is an employee who can do all the housework and childcare in return for lodgings and food. It does not take a genius to forsee trouble, especially if the girl is expecting to be treated as a tradional au-pair. I hope all the foreign websites point this out to prospective young girls seeking to become an au-pair in England.

If this was your 22 yr old son or daughter, you would not want them hanging around and joining in with all aspects of your adult social life.. so why should the au pair expect to be included in everything.

A family bbq, yep, but not a small dinner party for friends.

If you want to drop a subtle hint, I would say "what are you planning on doing XXX night? only we are having bill and ben round for dinner, shall I cook something for you earlier or do you want to sort yourself out?"

SnapFrakkleAndPop - I totally agree with you. They should change the term "au-pair plus" to something else (won't write on here what but you can make a guess) because the current term is very misleading.