Back to Work Interview

[pennyprincess]

Just wondered what mumsnetters make of this. Is it the norm?

I have had a back to work interview with a senior manager after being off one day. In the interview I was asked to explain my erratic pattern of attendance and I was made to feel that my reasons for absence were doubted. And also that I had excessive absences. The whole tone of the 30 minute interview was as if I had done something wrong - like a disciplinary hearing.

I said in the meeting that all the absences were genuine and I feel you are suggesting I am lying. To which she just went on about fullfilling of my terms and conditions - no empathy or stating she was not suggesting i was lying at all.

Admittedly I have had a few absences. I returned from mat leave last march:

• I was off a week in May - baby sick and then me
• A 3 day days in oct,I then went in for a day but was still ill so was then off a further week (so counts as 2 absences) *Then this absence 1 day - in fact not even a full day as I went home sick after arriving at work.

I have also had a couple of medical appointments off.

But I have also worked lots of extra hours.

I know this is a lot, certainly more than i have ever had before - but with 2 babies I think you pick up things more.

Is it normal for these things to be conducted like a discipline hearing.

I am definately not a cryer - I have never cried at work in 15 years. But I left the interview and went the loo and cried and was then on the verge of tears all afternoon. Then as soon as I got in the car I burst out crying.

I actually feel like going off sick with stress I am so upset and worked up, i am actually shaking.

The interview left me incapable of productive work in the afternoon and completely demotivated.

I find this hard as if I have a sore throat or bad cold, I would normally go back to bed, dose myself up for 24 hours then get back to work. To me, if I feel lousy it seems a bit rubbish to have see a doctor. She prescribes gargle stuff and nose sprays and we have a cupboard full.

NONE of my absences have been duvet days

I was not fit for work simple as that. I did 15 years with 5 days off i now have had a year with 6 days sick - 3 days compassionate leave. I really really think the whole picture should be looked at- new babies starting at nursery pick up bugs, bugs spread what can one do - shit in the boss's office!!!

I am sick of this !!!!

Claretandcheese, I agree to a certain extent about not treating all absences the same, but it has to be fair for everyone, and, to most employees, the Bradford score is how they do that.

DH also has one person off on long term sick, but if, for example, he will be off for six months, his rating would only be 180 because it's counted as one absence. Therefore people with serious illnesses aren't penalised. (And also, people with long-term conditions lasting more than a year, are covered under disability legislation).

The OP has had far fewer days off, but will have a higher score because she has had more periods of absence. It's really unfortunate that parents are likely to be off more becuase they pick up bugs from their children, but there can't be one rule for parents, and one rule for people who don't have children.

Absence (again using that Bradford score) is also one of the criteria that companies can take into account when they are deciding who to make redundant.

That's just it, Penny, put Mrs never off in five years in with a bunch of toddlers for a few weeks and she'd soon be clocking up some sickness absence. If the boss thinks you're lying why not turn up and shit in her office? Or you could video yourself at home, as evidence, and send it in for her to enjoy!!

penny, I wasn't having a pop at you or anything. When my dd was tiny and first in nursery, she was sick every 5 mins it seemed. My boss actually "had a word" telling me I needed to organise different child care.

I DON'T think you should be stressing yourself about the tone of one meeting though. Sometimes I think we are pre-programmed to feel guilty about everything in a way that men don't. You not be crying in the toilets. You should be taking a deep breath, going in tomorrow and doing your job. Fuck'em.

" If the boss thinks you're lying why not turn up and shit in her office?"

PMSL - this has really amused me :o

Yes my manager did know, however it was a standard form which she claims she had to follow. At least she looked embarrased when I started crying (again)

AP, the Bradford score is not a God given, immutable guiding principle it is man made and therefore potentially fallible and therefore potentially not useful. Just making something standardised and universal doesn't make it automatically right. Someone made a decision that it was reasonable, on what grounds? Was it properly researched first, and the parameters properly defined?
Also being fair is not equal to treating everyone the same. Look at Communism, for example. If it would be unfair to non parents to treat them differently why not have a more flexible system that benefited both the same? The rule would. in fact, be the same ie if you have good reason to be ill ( in the parents' case being around small children, in others some other reasons ) then this is taken into account. No preferential treatment necessary.
Poor old Bradford, by the way, being associated with this tool!

oh yes when I went back to work after having DS I went back on the wednesday, first meeting with my boss I said "DS is sick, can I ahve the rest of the week off please" and it continued like that for six weeks. Luckily I managed it through GP cover & leave but I was lucky to be able to do that and have an understanding boss

thats bollocks hairy
No one could criticise her for not asking that question - she is falling back on the "only doing my job" excuse to excuse a lack of thought and capability! Where I work (and I imagine it's the same everywhere) almost all of these things are at the manager's discretion anyway!

Does seem faintly dodgy that the Bradford score doesn't recognise linked absences - so it penalises you for trying to come back to work then going straight off again.

SSP does recognise linked periods, otherwise there's an disincentive to return to work until you're absolutely sure you're better.

And without linked absences it does indeed penalise people with serious illnesses, who are none the less able to do some work on their better days or between, say, dialysis.

Sorry if this has already been brought up, but time off to care for a dependent is, nor should be dealt with as "sick leave".

Our sickness policy is based on instances of absence but any absence for the same issue is discounted until a certain threshold for the total amount of time off is reached - about 20 days I think. This latter trigger obviously picks up long term health problems which we might need to manage by OH, risk assessment etc.

For example, you have 3 instances of absence several weeks apart, lets say 2 days off with D&V, 3 days with flu-type symptoms and 1 day with back pain. All totally unrelated. This would trigger our sickness reporting policy.

Whereas if you had flu, came back after 3 days then went off again for a week, it should only count as 1 absence, because it was for the same 'issue'.

Absences related to disability and pregnancy should be removed from the calculations to avoid discrimination.

Some managers are crap. The procedures need to be in place but the meetings should be conducted with sensitively. I would encourage managers to look at a person's record over more than just a year and conduct the meeting accordingly. Everyone is subject to the same proceedure but the approach is likely to be different for an employee who has had a good attendance in previous years but has had 10 days absence this year against someone who has 10 days every year.

Hairy very by that. Complete jobsworth, v insensitive. Your manager clearly didn't have enough sense to use her judgement .

They are specific issues and should not be combined to trip triggers.

I'm looking at the OP's
"* A 3 day days in oct,I then went in for a day but was still ill so was then off a further week (so counts as 2 absences)"

And at Hairy.

Penny, you KNOW that some people take the piss with time off, and you KNOW you're not one of them.

The manager had to do what s/he did- it goes with the job.

If there is something s/he said which was rude, unpleasant or unfair, you have every right to be aggrieved; but first of all, you're going to have to pinpoint what were the unpleasant remarks.

Saying ' I didn't like the tone ' probably won't get you very far if you make a complaint. Think it through - did they use threatening words, or intimidating body language? When you have decided what was so unpleasant about the person, discuss it as calmly as possible with HR.

But think very carefully first - what did they actually do or say which was unpleasant?

If you can pinpoint it, fair enough. Write down, while it is fresh in your memory, and contact HR. But if you are having trouble putting your finger on what was so unpleasant, maybe you just reacted strongly to the formal treatment? You've said you were under a lot of strain before the btw interview. Could it be that contributed to your impression of how you were treated?

These are just questions to ask yourself, by the way, not to share with the world if you don't want to. Maybe there is a trusted colleague you could chat with, to try to get some perspective on the interview?

If you take it forward, you'll inevitably end up in a room with HR and the errant manager, so you need to get your facts very straight in your own mind. A friendly colleague could be just the person to help.

Hairy, I had a similar experience with my boss after a pregnancy loss. I took a whole week off after an ectopic and dared to return without a letter from the hospital where I had my tube removed..!

Mind you three months later when I told her I was pregnant and all was well, her response was not 'congratulations', but a warning that I shouldn't expect sympathy for pregnancy related illness as she'd bit experienced any problems during her pregnancies.

And this from a Director of HR...

Anyone here heard of Presenteeism? This is when people are so stressed/harassed about attending work, they go to the opposite extent and although are present at work they are not necessarily productive for the whole time, especially if they are going in when unwell, leading to stress etc. If workplaces are not careful they'll end up with a lot of the workforce doing this and productivity plummets. Great result!

FFS. How can bosses be so unsympathetic about pregnancy? My previous (male) boss had just lost his grandchild to fucking SIDS and still managed to congratulate me on my pregnancy when I came back after two days sick leave following a bleed and early scan.

I guess one thing I learned under the Bradford system was that if I had a really bad infection was to take all the time off the gp said to recover, rather than go back to work for a day or so and get worse and be off again - as penalised more! As a teacher it meant important classes were missed when I could just about manage only the exam ones and not anymore - but the system meant you had to use it. It lowered my score to acceptable levels and ignored the needs of students with exams forthcoming.

Anyway, if you have another absence OP can you take someone in with you for a BTW so you can see if the tone is as bad again and act on it if necessary? Also find out if you can take holiday at short notice if ill, to avoid triggering the work policy, or if can work time in lieu. If you can't work time in liue then I would consider not working extra hours to suit work purposes.

That sounds like an awful lot of sickness even aside from the children's illnesses.

This one in particular:

"* A 3 day days in oct,I then went in for a day but was still ill so was then off a further week (so counts as 2 absences)"

It would (for me anyway) take a pretty significant illness to warrant 8 days off work. If it's just your standard colds, flu, etc then it would be having a laugh. I had a kidney infection and ended up in hospital over night. I was back at work in less than a week. I only had 3 days off. For 8 days off work it must have been pretty serious....?

I'm also surprised you took sick leave when the baby was sick. At my job you get it deducted from your annual leave. The reason being, it isn't your fault, your child is sick, but it isn't the employers fault either and you wont get any freebies for it.

They sound pretty standard TBH. My job would intervene long before yours did.

Mm.

So the OP has had, apart from medical appointments, 3 absences in a year.

On 2 of these occasions she has anyway come into work, but then gone home because she was too sick to continue.

She in fact does work erratic hours - because she works extra hours.

And this is "having a laugh"?

(BTW agree time off for baby's sickness shouldn't be under sick leave.)