Back to Work Interview

[pennyprincess]

Just wondered what mumsnetters make of this. Is it the norm?

I have had a back to work interview with a senior manager after being off one day. In the interview I was asked to explain my erratic pattern of attendance and I was made to feel that my reasons for absence were doubted. And also that I had excessive absences. The whole tone of the 30 minute interview was as if I had done something wrong - like a disciplinary hearing.

I said in the meeting that all the absences were genuine and I feel you are suggesting I am lying. To which she just went on about fullfilling of my terms and conditions - no empathy or stating she was not suggesting i was lying at all.

Admittedly I have had a few absences. I returned from mat leave last march:

• I was off a week in May - baby sick and then me
• A 3 day days in oct,I then went in for a day but was still ill so was then off a further week (so counts as 2 absences) *Then this absence 1 day - in fact not even a full day as I went home sick after arriving at work.

I have also had a couple of medical appointments off.

But I have also worked lots of extra hours.

I know this is a lot, certainly more than i have ever had before - but with 2 babies I think you pick up things more.

Is it normal for these things to be conducted like a discipline hearing.

I am definately not a cryer - I have never cried at work in 15 years. But I left the interview and went the loo and cried and was then on the verge of tears all afternoon. Then as soon as I got in the car I burst out crying.

I actually feel like going off sick with stress I am so upset and worked up, i am actually shaking.

The interview left me incapable of productive work in the afternoon and completely demotivated.

Two separate incidences of a week each is a lot of time off work. Plus you've had further absences on top of this.

Your post reads as if it was okay to take this time off because you've got kids which is not very productive.

Thank you for reminding me why I left the NHS. The sickness policy bordered on harrassment

Sounds like a lot to me as well.

I think this is pretty normal. Employers need staff they can count on - I'm not being disrespectful to you, but yes, this is working life these days.

I think back to work monitoring of this kind is completely normal. Did you actually take sick leave when the baby was ill though? If so your figures are being skewed. That should have been unpaid dependent's leave. From what you say you've had 14 days off sick over 4 occasions in 12 months. That is a lot.

Sounds very normal, all of my emplyers (both private and public sector) have conducted themselves similarly.

There is something called the Bradford score, which is, IIRC, number of absences X number of absences X days off. Once that gets over a certain amount, lots of workplaces will implement a formal absence management procedure that can lead to losing your job.

It's really tough, but I think you have had a lot of time off, as others have said.

I wonder if she was using the Bradford Formula, which would certainly have flagged you up in most organisations.

The most well known calculation for this is known as the Bradford Formula (or Bradford Model). It is used by a number of public sector organisations including the Prison Service, and was identified as a successful methodology in the 2004 HSE/Cabinet Office/DWP publication Managing Sickness Absence in the Public Sector. Using this model, employees are allocated a points score by squaring the number of separate absences over a period of time and then multiplying it by the total number of days absent in the period. This enables managers to identify those staff with a persistent record of absences and to distinguish them from those who have had a single long period of sickness.

Ask you HR if this is what they use and ask them what their tipping point is... most places it is 250, just using your actual absences takes you to 224 if they have included your other medical app'ts then you will certainly be over the limit.

I'm sorry to hear that you have been so unfortunate with illnesses this year . I think it is just they way it goes sometimes.

That IS a lot of absences though. You have had more time off in the past year than I have had in my whole career (14 years). I have been lucky though. I could well have as much time off in the next three months - who knows.

I have worked with a few people who do take time off for things I wouldn't [colds etc]. I even had one who would say things like if she got up and still felt tired it was her body of telling her she need the day off (also refused to take painkillers for headaches etc - so would have time off for that). I guess your employers are just trying to ensure that you appreciate that this is a lot of time off and is not normal.

Sometimes you simply have a run of bad luck though and genuinely need to take that amount of time off - like you have.

That is quite a lot of individual incidents and it's pretty standard. The last 3 places I've worked have a polict that looks like this:

1 absence = fill in a form
2 absences = fill in form and have back to work meeting with line manager
3 absences = fill in form and back to work meeting with senior manager

Any absences after 3 are seen as excessive and the senior manager will do all back to work meetings after this point.

My dh's office has a policy which asks that all employees who've had 3 or more instances of absence must see a company doctor.

Most people are genuine but there are always a few who take advantage. I've had 2 instances of absence myself in the last 12 months - flu (week off) and d&v (2 days off). I would have no problem explaining my pattern of absence. First absence I took advice from gp and didn't return while still contagous (was also too ill to get out of bed anyway) and with D&V I followed school policy but I would be happy to share the gruesome details

My meeting was very informal but some managers are a bit rubbish at them.

YABU. You mustn't be sick erratically, because it makes management's job difficult. If you insist on making a lifestyle choice to be sick, kindly agree a regular schedule for it.

I got the same sort of treatment when I was pregnant with horrendous morning sickness. I wish I'd thrown up on my bosses shoes then she would have believed me.

Poor you, I am so sorry you are feeling so bad.x

I have had a similar experience to you since returnign to work in that baby dd has been ill a lot and I've had probably about 9 days off. My employer is sympathetic though, unlike yours it sounds. Very unfair to make you feel as if you're in the wrong/lying. It happens when you have kids - and as you say, you've worked extra hours.

Try not to worry.It sounds like this was very badly managed, no interview should leave you crying and shaking. Do you have a supportive DH?

Ignore bitchy comments on here, go and run yourself a nice bath and try and leave work behind.

There aren't any bitchy comments on this thread. Unless failing to give the OP complete validation now counts as bitchy.

Leave for dependents and sick leave are completely different. If people (I'm not suggesting the OP has deliberately done this, there may have been a misunderstanding when she reported her absence) phone in sick when one of their children is sick rather than doing what they are supposed to do, which is phone in and say you need unpaid dependents' leave, then sick leave figures will look bad. And the employer will follow it up. The Bradford Scale is in common use in the public and private sector now.

I do appreciate I have had a lot of sickeness. But if it is all genuine what can I do - Is it really on to make me feel so bad about it. Surely that is wrong do bosses not realise how demotivating that it is.

It almost seems one is penalised for trying to get into work whereas a long terms absence is seen as ok.

I have been off with children and self - but recorded same and I get paid either way -so not that relevant I am not trying to con anyone. It is just the case that when kids are ill mum is likely to get sick too.

That certainly isn't the tone of return to work interviews in my (NHS) organisation. I have had to do the following:

Me [reads from policy]: Employee, was stress a factor in your time off sick?
Him: No, I cracked my rib on a surf-board
Me: And is there anything that would improve your work-life balance to prevent such incidents in the future?
Him: No, I cracked my rib on a surf-board
Me: And is there anything I can do to make sure it doesn't happen again?
Him: No, I cracked my rib on a surf-board.

Absence must certainly be managed but the key word is 'managed' not either exploited or used to accuse. I agree you shouldn't have taken sick days when the baby was sick, if that's what you did, and the 3 days off, then back in, then a week could be a red flag in terms of you avoiding having to get a doctor's note for a prolonged period of absence but that should have been covered by the return to work interview conducted at that time. If it developed into a pattern I would be concerned.

I think it would be extremely unproductive for you to go off sick with stress, although I can entirely understand why you want to under the circumstances. I would want to document this situation in writing with HR - not in an accusatory tone but just to confirm as you have in your opening post the reasons for your absences and the remedial steps, such as extra hours, which you took to address them.

For what it's worth, when ds was little I used to call the 6 months from October to March 'the season of the puke' as he seemed to be ill on and off constantly. Bloody hard work building up their immune systems! I had a theory children should live in test tubes until they were 18 and then they could go be ill on their own. Not sure this is the right answer.

Equally I've known loads of people struck down by flu this winter, including myself. Let's hope there's not a new strain next winter or we'll all be done for

Actually your employer can dismiss you for being sick if you are so ill you are incapable of doing your job. Which isn't the case here but it isn't true to say "no employer can dismiss you for being sick".

OP when your child was ill and then you, did you take dependents leave for her illness? Because if so that isn't sick leave.

Do people think i should complain about 'tone' of interview?

While the principle of the back to work meeting is NU, they should handle it in a respectful way with a tone that is helpful to you.

e.g. if there is theme to the sickness finding out if there are things that can help (preventative) or improving communication so that they are reassured that you and your doctor are working on it.

If you feel that their tone is inappropriate then have a union rep in there for an outside perspective and someone you can talk to afterwards

Yes it is normal to have a back to work interview after a pattern of sickness such as this, no it shouldn't be treated as a disciplinary hearing.

I've hit a trigger before after just 4 days off sick in total, but it's just procedure. It may be that your manager didn't handle it as well as she could have but most likely she is just following the rules.

A trigger interview shouldn't be seen as some sort of punishment, it's used to monitor sickness and identify problems and take steps to remedy these problems if possible leading to fewer absences in the future.

NB the time i was off in oct I did have a sick note. I did take time child was sick as compassionate leave.
DD was sick 7 days (dh took time off with her at first) then I caught the bug and had it for week.