To want to discuss yr 5 ds's punishment with his teacher?

[Longstocking2]

dh says "leave it, don't undermine her, he needs to just accept it." but I think she's being very heavy handed.
Don't want to go into detail but should parents teach their kids to just accept the punishment (obviously within legal reason and amnesty guidelines..!.) regardless of its fairness because that's like a life lesson?
I don't want to undermine the teacher, I just think punishment should be fair, quick and appropriate to the misdemeanor.
I'd be interested in other parents' experiences.

No leave it up there! If we can't be offended on mumsnet where can we be offended?
Forgive my preciousness kreecher, was up many times in the night and finally up at 5 with toddler, addled with worry about countless things and as peevish as it's possible to be. Good luck in the supermarket, I need to go too, the cupboard it bare.

Longstocking - I do think you should talk to the teacher first, and only go to the Head if you are still unhappy after you've spoken with her. There is a chain of command or management heirachy, and unless the situation is really dire, it is better not to go over the teacher's head as your first reaction.

I also think you need to accept that there is a 'skip straight to final step' option in most discipline systems, for when the situation merits it. And teachers are only human too - it may be that the whole class had been being silly, and your ds's final bit of silliness was the last straw.

I took Kreechers comment as she has just explained.In no way did I think it was meant as insulting.

I agree really SDTGirl, I guess I do have to see her myself. Dh is totally against it though and I can see the sense of leaving it completely. She may actually if left alone realise that it's a massive punishment for what is not a huge misdemeanor and temper it somehow.
It's just late last night ds was still awake worrying about it, it's making him really anxious and I just think it's counter productive. The punishment should be on the day imo

reinitin, I have sort of apologised to Kreecher, who may appropriately have gone off in a huff to the supermarket as she is entitled to do!
I'm frazzled and peevish as can be.
Wish I hadn't posted
but grateful for some good advice.

Longstocking2

I have no idea what happened etc etc, but in case it helps I always go and see teachers with any concerns I have and I always support my dc if I think it necessary, because teachers like everyone else are human, and soemtimes get it wrong. I always approach teachers with love and a let us sort this out together approach and so far it has always proved a good thing.

Love and understanding are the way forwards.

I agree 100% with Hullygully. As teachers, we hope that they are firm but fair, but unfortunately the human aspect gets in the way and sometimes teacherj just have a bad day and as a result can make bad decisions and then not want to lose face by apologising to a child and rethinking the situation!

In my experience, many people who work with children ( not just teachers)find it very difficult to say ' i was wrong' and apologise. I think it's really important that we, as adults, are able to do this as we are then teaching children that no-one can always be right, how to apologise properly and to trust that adults will admit when they are in the wrong.

Hopefully you can speak to said teacher and be rerassured that thew situation can be resolved.

I think the underlying issue fro Longstocking ( i hope i'm right) is that when your trust in the teacher who spends 5 hours each day with your child is undermined, it becomes difficult to relax and trust that your child is being cared for and encouraged whilstr they are at school. Since 'protection' is what parents do, in general, this can be a very difficult emotion to deal with.

Good luck Longstocking (I think your english is perfectly good btw)

Thanks, shaz, ds is also very anxious at the moment and struggling to belong in quite a tough group of boys, I just wish she could be a tiny bit more supportive of him, not come down on him like a ton of bricks! He's really anxious these days and I hate to see him lose confidence when with other teachers he just seemed to blossom.
Thanks again I really appreciate it.

Also would love to speak to her calmly but feel very tearful and upset, I think that will just p** her off! It probably would if I were her. Maybe I need to wait until the end of the week and see how things are and if I'm a bit calmer. I haven't been distressed in front of ds just supportive of him and taking the punishment.

I am really curious now what this punishment that would identify you in rl could be.

Are you sure ds has told you the whole story?

Ofcourse teachers can get it wrong and sometimes it's a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time but usually there is something leading up to it.

I would have a quiet word with the teacher to find out if ds has told you the whole story and take it from there

Oh and re kreechers comment. I thought she was actually apologising for you , saying that using the term 'civil servant' was a translation gone wrong.

agree with the later posts here about teachers sometimes having a bad day - I know I do! We do sometimes get a it a bit wrong but depending on the exact circumstances and how clearly it can be shown that an error was made, the punishment usually stands. On occasion I have been prepared to rescind one but only if I can be given proof that I was definitely in error. It is very undermining for future discipline if the parent "gets the child off" something that they have deserved (and I emphasise, without knowing details I am not implying anything about your situation). It is not a bad life lesson at age 9/10 that sometimes our actions are misunderstood and life isn't always fair.

Longstocking ring the school and ask to speak to the teacher. Or send her a note saying that you would like a quick meeting to discuss the behaviour and punishment. Tell her what you think about the behaviour (generally politic to agree it was wrong!) before you state your case about the punishment.

I did this recently because the teacher (usually great) lost it with my DD f and gave her a punishment for the following week. It was disproportionate, and I did need to discuss it because DD was distraught. Punishment was dropped after we discussed, and she agreed that she had been unfair.

Wouldn't normally intervene but felt it was necessary in this case.

OP, do you actually know the exact circumstances, or just what your son has told you? Do you think what you know is a complete and accurate story or could there be some (important) elements missing?

Your DH says to 'leave it'. He also has your son's best interests at heart and wouldn't permit unfair treatment of your son.

If you go to the Headteacher you will undermine your son's teacher, probably without knowing all the details you need. I don't think that would pay off in the long run. The teacher will have had a bona fide reason for missing out 'steps', it's more than her job's worth not to follow procedure.

Let this go as far as the school is concerned, speak to your son and ask him what he thinks of his own behaviour and see what you can glean from his response. Maybe speak to your son's teacher when this has blown over and you're feeling more calm.

And just to echo what Trixie says, I was very very careful not to undermine the teacher when dealing with this situation. And the teacher found a way to rescind the punishment without losing face. She had had a very bad day and DD just copped it. I also sent teacher a thank you note for listening to our concerns afterwards, and there has been no bad feeling.

I don't know what ds did and I don't know how the teacher punished him so really no idea whether you should be taking it up with the head or not.

If you are going to be weepy and break down, don't sepak to the teacher directly. If you can be calm, serious and perhaps firm, ok otherwise do it in writing and ask for an appointment to discuss it. Take someone with you to the appointment if you feel you will get too upset.

Getting upset will not be good. Get down in writing as unemotionally as you can what happened and why you feel this was inappropriate and send it to the head asking if you could have an appointment to discuss this and sort it out.

Since you don't want to tell us what happened and dh is not willing to get involved, ask someone in RL telling them what happened if you are over-reacting first - your sister, your mum?

Dh is a teacher. A public servant. Therefor I pay his wages! So I can tell him what to do. Ha! I am really going to enjoy this....

Sorry op my post crossed with your apology.

I didn't think it was acceptable to 'punish' children any more? I thought that they were supposed to see consequences for theior actions and that those consequences should be related to and fit the situation. In this way children are educated in why particualr bewhavours are not acceptable, - if you do A, B will happen as a result, kind of idea, supporting and encouraging children to become responsible citizens. Punishment by nature is actually a form of bullying. I'm an adult and I can do this so I will - not much learning for the child there other than to learn that when you're bigger and stroinger you can do what you like to those smaller/weaker than you.

Children do need boundaries and they need to know what's acceptable and not, but they also have a right to be shown respect and be guided in a way that is caring and kind.

In residential child-care ( where people are paid tp look after children), children are completely not allowed to be punished.

Yeah, sanction is ok imo, but like consequences better as if this theory is followed it makes sense to the child.

It is a.difficult balance, people want teachers to be in loco parentis when it comes to things like responsibility, staying late, changing dirty children etc but not when it comes to discipline or something they or their child could potentially disagree with.

I don't think it is unreasonable to non-confrontationally ask the teacher for her rationale, so that you can explain it to your Ds. It could well be that a number of things mounted up that meant the steps were skipped, his version of harmlessly being silly might also be different to her's.