to teach my kids that som

[Niceguy2]

Having just watched this on YouTube I am wondering if AIBU to teach my kids how to punch/kick & generally defend themselves properly?

I mean ok...officially they should tell the teacher's but let's be honest, would you have done as a child?

I was bullied as a kid by quite a few people as I was the only immigrant child in the school so an obvious target. Thinking back, it was only after I learned Karate and started fighting back (only after being provoked a lot) that it stopped.

So whilst its all well and good having anti-bullying policies and officially letting the teachers deal with bullies, AIBU to think the best way to ensure my kids don't get bullied is to make sure they know how to fight so potential bullies think twice first?

I think if all else failed then I would pull him out and home school him, whilst working very hard to toughen him up and yes blah blah blah he shouldn't have to change, but I will not always be around to sort stuff out for him, so he will need to be able to look after himself or the world will chew him up and spit him out.

What did you do Goosey?

ANd you're putting the responsibiity to deal with it on your child.

"Hit him back - that'll sort it. That's what I did when I was your age. They didn't bother me again, I can tell you"

So kid hits back, It doesn;t work.

And a child who already has low self esteem now thinks it's his fault because if he was any good hitting back would have sorted it like his dad said it would. After all, it worked for his dad - it must be his fault it didn;t work for him.

So what do you want kids to do seeker?

Tell a teacher? Lots of teachers don't care or will side with the bullies - law of the jungle remember. When the bullies find out you have been dobbing it gets turned up a notch. I remember one girl at our school, her Mum came to the school to talk to the principal about the bullying, the bullies found out. She tried to kill herself when she was 16. She didn't die then but she never came back to school and I don't know what happened to her.

I know you think the adults should sort it out, and I agree they should. But very often they don't or won't or can't.

So what do you want the kids at the bottom of the pack to do? To just take it and hope they don't get hurt too much this time? To run away? (they are kids remember they have nowhere to go).

What do you want them to do?

No seeker, your rephrasing isn't any better as you are still saying it won't be made better. It was made better by a handful of people just on this thread and tbh if it worked for one then it worked.

And as for putting it on the child, you do have to give the child ways of standing up for themselves and strategies to try and make it stop. If it doesn't stop then it isn't your child's fault and if your child feels a failure it is up to the parent to reverse that.

Well, personally, I would remove my child from a school which did not take bullying seriously.

I don't want my children to grow up thinking that "it's the law of the jungle".

It isn't. But there are people who think it is - and telling your child to hit back harder reinforces that view.

I am going to leave this thread now as I do not want an argument, seeker and I find your posts somewhat annoying.

Good luck with your children niceguy2.

You don't know what it is like growing up near the school that this happened at seeker, it is one of the most deprived areas in all of Australia.

There will be no schools for him to move too that they won't find him at, I seriously doubt his parents can afford to move or have the resources available to home school him.

So all the adults around either cannot or will not help and you still expect him to take it like a punching bag or run away? Where is he going to go?

It is the law of the jungle seeker we have a thin veneer of society over millions of years of evolution, where the strongest, most ruthless, have survived. Once again, look around and tell me about all the kind, generous people who put others first who are at the top.

It isn't going to change, it never has and it never will. I deal with the world how it is, not how I would like it to be.

What do you want him to do?

fourfourtyfour - why are you leaving the thread? Because someone disagrees with you or asks awkward questions?

morloth - `re you talking about the youtube clip? I haven't seen it, so I can't comment on it. I can only talk from my own experience.

But I do think if you are telling your children that it's wrong to be kind and generous because kind and generous people don;t make it to the top, you may be storing up trouble for the future.

And it depends on what you mean by "the top"

I will answer you since it came up on Threads I am on and saw my name.

I was leaving because I think you are being naive and rude. I have no problem with people disagreeing me, just with people making blanket statements.

I don't feel I can add anything to help the OP so will leave.

Seeker might have missed this in the first few pages but were you bullied at school?

I brought my son up to be kind and generous, to turn the other cheek, etc etc etc etc, the list goes on I did everything in my power to stop the bullies or have them stopped, he did everything in his power to stop the bullies, only 1 teacher in his school did anything to stop him being bullied, NB not everything to stop the bullies. The 'school' only did something when one child was hospitalised for head injuries caused by the bully and his little possie repeatedly smashed the kids head on the playground floor.
When you have done everything you can to prevent the bullies making you a target where do you go? the bullies didn't just do this at school but at home as well, in his street, in front of his house. After exhausting every avenue, I either keep him confined to his home or he fights back and inflicts enough damage to give him time to run and hopefully the bully will learn that my son is not an easy target.

Buddhastic - no.

The top is having enough resources to ensure that you and your kids survive, it is being willing to whatever is necessary to look after the people you love and who rely on you. Including violence if necessary.

You think in a scrabble for water someone like say David Cameron is going to see your kids drink before his? People fight for power and control to survive. Why else would you?

Kind and gentle and generous are lovely things and I do teach my kids those things but I also teach them that the world is a harsh place where they will need to be strong and fight for themselves or they will get rolled over.

I think you are lying to your kids when you tell them that everything can be sorted out without violence. Many things can but humans are humans.

I live in a first world country, as do you I assume. You think your lifestyle is not made possible by violence and oppression somewhere else?

When was the last time your kids went hungry to ensure that someone else's ate?

This is all tied up together you know, if you are not strong and willing to stand your ground then you will be fucked over. You may still be if you fight back, but you definitely will be if you don't.

As for the future my kids are being raised in the same manner I was. I am quite happy with who I am, so do not worry about storing up problems for the future.

Personally I think the future probably involves a resource war pretty soon. I assume then you will be ok with people who are prepared to fight for you and yours?

I repeat what do you want a kid who has been bullied for years to do when the adults around him have not helped, running has not helped, and taking the beatings has not helped. He is out of options.

Teaching your child to be kind and generous, and teaching them to defend themselves, even by hitting back if necessary are not mutually exclusive and I can't believe anyone seriously thinks they are!

I try to teach my DS not to hit children back - but that's because he is 3 and most of the hitting that is done at the moment is not deliberate. He is pretty good at not hitting back but sometimes he does - I take him to task over it.

But I will be enrolling him in self-defence classes BECAUSE he is a kind and gently boy and therefore stands a good chance of being bullied. Ju jitsu is what we were taught at school for self-defence - from what people have said on here, it seems like a good option, so that's what he'll do.

Re. that school in the clip (assuming it's the same one that has been on the news tonight) - they claim to have zero tolerance on bullying and violence in the school. Yet that 16yo has been bullied daily for years - somehow doesn't quite add up, does it.

Morloth - you haven't got an armageddon cupboard in your house, have you?

In our school the head says there is no bullying but I know of families who have moved their kids due to bullying and I know of 3 children at least who have been bullied.

Any Head who says there is no bullying in his or her school is either deluded or lying.

No, and my zombie plan is to join the undead horde.

It doesn't have to be armegeddon for a person who lives a nice safe first world existence where they can talk about violence not being the answer. To find themselves suddenly faced with the decision to either fight or run. Sometimes running is the better option, but not when you have nowhere to run to.

I see you cannot answer my question as to what a kid should do when he finds himself backed into a corner and presumably neither could the kid who put up with this shit for years.

You cannot be saying that in the same position you would not have defended yourself.

There are 6 billion people on a planet which can probably support around 3 properly, there will be a war - there already is, but because it isn't happening in our streets we can pretend it is nothing to do with us.

I did say that if you are backed into a corner then of course you defend yourself. I just think it's a short term act which may improve things temporarily, but is more than likely to make things worse in the longer term.

I disagree, the kid in the clip had been beaten on for years, nothing changed until he defended himself.

Bullies have no reason to stop until you give them one.

There are times when you have to do what is necessary to defend yourself the world is not nice place it never has been simply walking away may end up with the back of your head being hit it does not always work nor does the nicey nice approach.

Funny how you lot keep saying how great Karate is.

"Look at my Karate moves!" exclaimed a Yr3 boy, slashing his limbs this way and that.

So DD got hold of his hand, flipped him over & pinned him on the floor instantly.

"Oh really?" she said. "I do Judo." :)

I could trade anecdotes.

But I won't.

People don;t talk about the times when a strategy doesnt work. In this country we have as part of our cultural furniture that bullies are cowards and if we stand up to them they will back down. So we have lots of stories abotu the times when this works - but not of the countless times when it doesn't.

"Any Head who says there is no bullying in his or her school is either deluded or lying."

I agree and if anyone touches my son again all my children will be removed immediately.

And actually, if you really want your child to learn to defend himself, then boxing is your way forward. You have to be very very good indeed at any of the 'oriental" martial arts before they can help you in real life. Learning how to throw a good punch is quicker, easier and more useful.