to think that girls won't get engineering degrees if they can't do the subjects at GCSE/A Level

[receiverofopiniongiver]

My daughter is set on doing an engineering degree at university. Her expertise is in Maths and Science and her school agree she will excel in this area.

However, today she called me to say that all D&T subjects other than Textiles and Cookery have been scrapped at GCSE and A level.

She wanted to do Product Design 1st choice and Graphic Design 2nd choice.

After I contacted the school their opinion is 'It's better for girls to have a GCSE in Textiles or Cookery than the other subjects.'

What 19th Century claptrap is that? And if that's the attitude, no wonder girls are not going into engineering.

We were more than likely changing schools for 6th form anyway (that's a definite), but now trying to battle for an alternative GCSE (such as language) rather than the traditional girls role that my daughter has no interest in.

Do you mean they are scrapped at that school? Or nationally?

If it is for the school, I agree you need to change schools!

Is this at a private school?

I'm hoping just for this particular school. I can't find that it's national.

No selective state.

Did you step in a time machine back to 1875 this morning? Seriously, YANBU. That is unbelievable. What's the ratio of boys/girls?

It might be worthwhile looking at a UCAS book to see what actual A-levels engineering require. Not many places care too much about GCSEs once you've got A-levels so provided she ends up doing the subjects she needs for these, she'll be fine. At a guess, I would think maths and physics would be useful.

That's disgusting. YANBU - change schools (if you can, obviously)

That's awful! I did graphic design at gcse and loved it - would have hated to be curtailed to textiles or cookery!

If she is academic, then surely it's better for her to stick to traditional subjects, which are more highly regarded by good universities than D&T subjects?

DS2 is interested in engineering, and I expect for A levels he will do Maths, Further Maths, Physics, and Chemistry.

His GCSE subjects would not look out of place on a curriculum from 40 years ago.

I don't disagree with your sentiment about the school's attitude though.

\link{http://www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/engineering/requirements.html\quick google for entry requirements came up with this} as an example

The Russel Group guide and the uni courses she's looked at recommend 'A' levels:

Maths, Further Maths, Phsyics, Product Design.

Physics of course - good job it's not me who needs the brains!!!

Just a complete stab in the dark - if school are refusing to back down, could you look at iGCSEs at all?

True that most A Level course entry requirements aren't dependent on subject, but university entrance is more competitive now and some do look at GCSE results as well as A level now.

Butterbur - that link (is Cambridge btw )

Says for engineering

"Essential: A Level/IB Higher Level Mathematics and Physics.
Highly desirable: a third mathematics/ science/technology A Level."

So I would presume that was a D&T subject??

YABU what's wrong with Maths, Chem, Phys

Good grief! That's the attitude adopted by my own all-girls school... thirty years ago! I attended a highly selective school where we took needlework, cookery and typing but weren't permitted to learn design technology, woodwork or computing. The boys in the equivilent achool down the road were though.

I'm both amazed and disgusted that these attitudes towards girls are still held.

YANBU and I hope you win your fight to get your daughter the education she deserves.

At a glance, just keeping textiles or cookery seems odd, especially their reasoning. I could understand poor student numbers or a rubbish syllabus. I have however found the skills learnt in textiles to be useful in my adult life, less so cookery!

I have an Engineering degree and the knowledge you need is Maths, physics and chemistry. D&T subjects are irrelevant.

However, really shite attitude from school.

surely she just needs maths, physics and another science and not non-courses though

if it's not a private school I think you should definitely be flagging this to the LEA. Though I will say that Product Design and Graphic Design would absolutely not be needed to do an Engineering degree, maths and physics are the key ones with triple science (+ maths of course) being the best bet. My concern would be more about the awful message it sends than any long term impact that it would have for your DD.

I have no knowledge of the inner workings of schools but surely a state school shouldn't actually be allowed to do this. What do the Governors and other parents have to say?

DH started a Mech Eng Degree - his A levels were Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry, with Psychology at AS level

I have no current experience so this may sound harsh..... but surely she needs to do the traditional Physics & Maths (&/or Chemistry/Biology) to read engineering at university?

www.russellgroup.ac.uk/uploads/Informed-Choices-final_2.pdf Sorry it says Design Technology not product design maybe they'll accept Textiles/Cookery - she could look after all the men on the course

I've got a few years to go before this so you'll have to excuse my ignorance - but why would somewhre like Cambridge say include as "highly desireable" a 3rd mathetmatics, science or technology A level if they're consider a non-subject

She doesn't need D&T GCSE to do engineering at most of the better universities. It's regarded as a softer subject, anyway. Not denigrating it, though!