to think that girls won't get engineering degrees if they can't do the subjects at GCSE/A Level

[receiverofopiniongiver]

My daughter is set on doing an engineering degree at university. Her expertise is in Maths and Science and her school agree she will excel in this area.

However, today she called me to say that all D&T subjects other than Textiles and Cookery have been scrapped at GCSE and A level.

She wanted to do Product Design 1st choice and Graphic Design 2nd choice.

After I contacted the school their opinion is 'It's better for girls to have a GCSE in Textiles or Cookery than the other subjects.'

What 19th Century claptrap is that? And if that's the attitude, no wonder girls are not going into engineering.

We were more than likely changing schools for 6th form anyway (that's a definite), but now trying to battle for an alternative GCSE (such as language) rather than the traditional girls role that my daughter has no interest in.

it's because they won't be counted for the Ebacc and that's all the school will be worried about - how it looks on paper

She's doing 3 separate sciences and Maths - Product design is her 'softest' option, her other 10 GCSEs are all traditional academic subjects. She's also starting 'AS' maths now, with the plan to do Maths, Further Maths and Physics for 'A' level, and D&T either 'AS' or hopefully full 'A' level.

I reckon the school will be keeping the cookery/textiles for the non-academics to opt for as their results won't be included in the Ebacc stats...

MadameDeathstare - she's already doing maths and physics......

D&T may be regarded as a "soft" subject and I agree she needs to do straight sciences/maths for engineering......however my BSc(Hons) in Home Economics (!!!! that dates me) has been very useful.....I even managed to achieve a commission in the Army with it .

She has to do a D&T - school did give option of:
Graphic Design
Product Design
Cookery
Textiles

As she had to do a D&T (she really wanted to do another language and I spoke to the HT but it wasn't allowed and had to be a D&T) she chose Product Design after seeing RG plan for degree recommended it etc.

Now she has to do either Cookery or Textiles. She feels that really is a waste of her time, as doesn't help prepare her for her 'A' level. And I was horrified at the school's comment.

Bit baffled by the Russell Group document - is anyone else reading it with a certain amount of scepticism? Doesn't seem to fit with other messages which they send out?

Now this is my ignorance I thought PD was very hands on, and therefore wouldn't be something she could do at home/with a tutor, as needs a workshop.

Maybe I'm wrong on this?

I think the D&T subjects might be nice but definitely not essential for an engineering degree. IMO the most important thing would be Maths and Further Maths, Maths is obviously essential and the first year of the degree will be a lot easier if she has Further Maths, it could be a bit of a shock otherwise! As she's already planning to do these, along with Physics, I think any other subject choice should be just based on what she enjoys doing. I agree a language might be a good idea and might even come in useful later, so many of the big firms are international now.

The school's comment about 'better for girls' sounds quite stupid and offensive if meant the way it sounds. But I really wouldn't worry about the subject, and don't think it will affect her or other girl's opportunities to do engineering degrees if that's what they're keen to do.

Oh I see your latest post about her not being allowed to do the language - that's ridiculous IMO.

I don't understand the thinking at your DD's school. They insist on a D&T subject, meaning she can't take another language. Then they cut the D&T options in half, so the choice she had to make wasn't a choice at all.

tbh all the D&T options look like non-subjects to me, but if I were your DD I would be v annoyed if I had to list either of Cookery or Textiles on my uni application alongside all the other subjects she's doing, and in the context of her chosen career, it looks a bit loopy and as if she had gone for a soft option.

I would raise with school / Governors / LA.

DH And DS1 have civil engineering degrees. ( from Cambridge and Russell group respectively ).
I would say go for traditional hard subjects in the sciences and maths at GCSE and A level to have any hope of getting in to the top UK universities.
Forget product and graphic design and go for the above choices.

I would complain vociferously about the seemingly sexist options being offered to a girl in the 21st century

see where that gets you

The Russell Group document certainly doesn't tie up with the Trinity College Cambridge list of acceptable A levels.

It looks like she has to do either Cookery or Textiles though, and can't choose an academic subject instead

I'd seriously be taking this to OFSTED - surely they are not allowed to discriminate between whether girls or boys are allowed to take certain subjects?

Ephiny that's it exactly - well summed :)

DD wants to do engineering at university and is currently year 11
she has chosen maths further maths physics and chemistry which we thought was perfect for engineering

am i missing something ???

It's a bit patronising to say that subjects like D&T are "non-subjects", whilst academic subjects are of course very important I don't see why it's a bad thing to have more practical subjects alongside these.

It's an all girls school - with a separate boys school doing their own thing.

I'd have loved to have seen the teacher who tried to tell my dd she had to take either of those subjects.

NotaMopsa my daughter wants to do a specialised engineering degree, and the specialised ones appear to mention this D&T 'A' level, where as engineering degrees seem to be for the sciences.

But I am very ignorant on this, and only have knowledge from my friend google!!!