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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that girls won't get engineering degrees if they can't do the subjects at GCSE/A Level

70 replies

receiverofopiniongiver · 09/03/2011 21:07

My daughter is set on doing an engineering degree at university. Her expertise is in Maths and Science and her school agree she will excel in this area.

However, today she called me to say that all D&T subjects other than Textiles and Cookery have been scrapped at GCSE and A level.

She wanted to do Product Design 1st choice and Graphic Design 2nd choice.

After I contacted the school their opinion is 'It's better for girls to have a GCSE in Textiles or Cookery than the other subjects.'

What 19th Century claptrap is that? And if that's the attitude, no wonder girls are not going into engineering.

We were more than likely changing schools for 6th form anyway (that's a definite), but now trying to battle for an alternative GCSE (such as language) rather than the traditional girls role that my daughter has no interest in.

OP posts:
BaroqueAroundTheClock · 09/03/2011 21:42

But butterbur if you read my link above it does actually say that Trinity is the only one that won't accept an A Level and vocational qualifications.

meditrina · 09/03/2011 21:44

From the acceptable A levels guide as published by Trinity Collge Cambridge:

"Engineering candidates are expected to offer Maths, Further Maths and Physics; those unable to take Further Maths A-level may take Maths, Physics and either another subject from List A1 or Electronics along with an AS level in Further Maths".

D&T is on list B: limited suitability (for architecture), as is electronics (for engineering).

List A1 is: Biology Chemistry Mathematics Further Mathematics Physics

Do make sure the school will be retaining these at A level.

squirrel007 · 09/03/2011 21:44

Another engineer here, and I am shocked at the comment about textiles and cooking being more useful Shock

I did food technology GCSE which was half cooking and half d&t - I loved the d&t bit, and wish I'd done full d&t GCSE. All the cooking skills i use I have learnt since I left home, but I still use the d&t skills for diy around the house! You're right though that girls should be able to do those subjects and they might even persuade some girls to go into engineering who otherwise might not have done.

Although, having said that, your daughter will be fine if she does maths, further maths and physics at a-level. Even chemistry is not essential, and like someone else said, it's a good chance to pick a 'fun' subject if she likes (I did music as my 4th a-level)

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 09/03/2011 21:45

ahhh \link{http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/admissions/guide/requirements.html\here is actually goes into subject of D&T more thoroughly}

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 09/03/2011 21:48

\link{http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/admissions/guide/table1.html\and here's the table}

meditrina · 09/03/2011 21:49

(sorry Baroque - somehow managed not to notice you'd already posted the link).

Original poster
receiverofopiniongiver · 09/03/2011 21:51

That's interesting thanks for that Baroque because that's only for 3rd 'A' level, so it seems if you have the desireable 3 Science/Maths combo which will with Maths, FM and Physics, then 4th is a bonus.

So agrees with it can be the 'fun' subject.

We disregard 2 schools for 'A' level last week, as one had only 1 Further Maths student and the other had only 1 Physics student. Not enough to make studying fun for working together.

OP posts:
muminthemiddle · 09/03/2011 21:55

I don't think there is anything wrong with doing tech sujects as long as the other subjects are considered "hard". However simply offering only cooking and textiles to girls is very wrong. It again presses the stereotypes of a by gone era. likewise I would encourage cooking and textiles to boys as well. A man who can cook is a great asset.

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 09/03/2011 21:56

'tis ok meditrina - I'm used to being ignored/not noticed Grin

Original poster
receiverofopiniongiver · 09/03/2011 21:58

Sorry did someone speak Grin

OP posts:
Drmelons · 09/03/2011 22:02

Have just spoken to a real life bone fide lecturer in mech engineering.

idealy- maths, further maths, physics
alternative- maths, physics, chemistry
If doing 4 A levels- maths, further maths, physics, chemistry
If doing 5 (! Shock) all the above plus possibly economics or computing.

They would not be especially interested in a DT type subject, although this would be something that could maybe be applied in an 'other interests' section

No student at the uni where my informant works came with any other A levels!

Original poster
receiverofopiniongiver · 09/03/2011 22:06

Thank you for asking Drmelons

It's good that noone has said biology - as although she's strong in all sciences she doesn't enjoy biology.

But she can do Chemistry, so that is an option.

5?!? I think we'll pass Grin

Could you ask whether it's better that she can darn the blokes socks? Or have their meal ready for them when they come home from a hard day of lectures? As she has to pick one of them for GCSE!!!

OP posts:
bubbleymummy · 09/03/2011 22:11

I have an MEng degree and I studied Biology Chemistry and Math at A level. Depending which type of engineering she is interested in Physics might be useful or further maths. Gcse subjects won't make much difference as long as they make her eligible to study those subjects for A level. Eg in our school we had to do Additional maths at GCSE level to study math at A-level and if you wanted to do Science A-levels you were advised to to triple award at GCSE although I did double award and managed fine.

Drmelons · 09/03/2011 22:17

I think if this particular engineer in question found that his socks had been darned for him that he would probably need hospital treatment for shock!

mycomment · 09/03/2011 22:23

Haven't read the whole thread, but could the comment from the school about girls and certain subjects be because they always refer to the students as girls (being an all girls school) rather than anything more sinister? Just wondering as I've heard / seen similar at boys' schools - they just always refer to the students as boys, "the boys really enjoy x", "we have changed the boys' curriculum to encourage more y", etc? Just a thought...

Adversecamber · 09/03/2011 22:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mysteryfairy · 09/03/2011 23:05

My DS2 is at a state grammar where they have to choose between doing a second MFL for GCSE or choose one of Resistant Materials, Electronics, Graphic Design, Textiles and Food Technology. DS missed a lot of school in years 7 and 8 due to chronic illness and really struggled to keep up with the 3 languages he had to learn. When he made his options choices in Y8 we reluctantly went for Resistant Materials, which I understand to be essentially woodwork/metalwork, as he had given up hope of catching up on a second MFL.

I did notice at parents evening this year that there were huge queues of girls and their parents to see the textiles and FT teachers and I was in a queue of all boys to see the RT teacher. DS confirmed that the subjects pretty much split along gender lines, with only Graphic Design having much of a mix.

Perhaps there simply isn't the demand to offer the subjects at an all Girls School? This seems more likely than calculated sexism by the school.

If there is an all boys twin school perhaps if she really has her heart set on the course she could go and do it there?

DS1 goes to an independent boys school with a sister school. He has told me that the girl (singular) doing further maths A level has to come across to the boys school for lessons Shock so you may have worst to come.

Camerondiazepam · 09/03/2011 23:08

I'm shocked they won't let her do another language but are making her choose Cookery or Textiles. Nothing helpful to add, really, am just Shock
Is it a timetabling issue? Sounds utterly bonkers.

GrimmaTheNome · 09/03/2011 23:30

'It's better for girls to have a GCSE in Textiles or Cookery than the other subjects.'

Thats antiquated sexist bollocks.

When DD was in yr1 they were asked what they wanted to be. She gave the same answer she'd done since she was 3: 'A builder' - by which she meant something like an engineer not a brickie. The teacher said 'oh no, girls can't be builders' Hmm

Fortunately, she is now at a selective girls school where along with 3 sciences they have to do a tech subject. The choices are Electronic Products, Food or Product Design. DD is a bit miffed she won't be able to do both electronics and PD!

GetOrfMoiLand · 09/03/2011 23:41

That is a shocking attitude and I am completely nonplussed. What does the boys side of the school do OP? Are they able to choose Prod design for GCSE?

FWIW I am an aeronautical engineer, product design is not essential or even particularly desirable as an A Level. I agree with others that Maths, Further Maths and Physics are essentials, with chemistry as a 4th option.

I would bloody complain about this. Utterly ridiculous.

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