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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this an extreme over reaction by a police officer?

92 replies

Kitsilano · 05/03/2011 17:30

My friend was walking her kids home from school yesterday as she does every day. She has 4 (the eldest is 6yrs old, the youngest 1yr). The eldest was scooting ahead of the pushchair but within sight, is well taught to stop and wait at each curb while she catches up so they can cross the road together.

She was stopped by a policeman who said she wasn't taking care of her children properly and was placing them in danger. She disagreed, they had a discussion and eventually he got in his car to drive off. Before he left she went to the car window and asked for his police number as she wanted to make a complaint.

At this point, he said he was going to report her to social services.

She is now distraught and angry, doesn't feel what she was doing amounts to putting her children in danger and feels bullied because he decided to escalate it because she asked for his number.

What do you think? Any social workers know what might happen next?

OP posts:
activate · 05/03/2011 17:43

surely she would have to report to a police station if given a caution

I would also complain

but I would be stunned if a policeman ever did this

Original poster
Kitsilano · 05/03/2011 17:44

I totally believe what she says - she may have disagreed forcefully but I dont think she would have been abusive in the slightest.

She went to the police station to make the complaint today - that's where they told her she would have a caution and that it was being reported to social services - at least that is her understanding.

Apparently the inspector already knew about the incident - so the police officer concerned must have gone back yesterday and discussed it.

OP posts:
Onetoomanycornettos · 05/03/2011 17:45

Well, of course little 6 year olds scooting along can hit someone, so can bike riders etc, but surely the police don't have the time or energy to monitor the speeds of 6 year olds, what with all those real criminals to catch. I'd be interested to know why she was cautioned, if that were me, I would not only not accept the caution, I would complain immediately and not informally. Wielding power for the sake of it is an abuse.

staggerlee · 05/03/2011 17:45

kitsilano,I think your friend would have had to agree to accept a police caution-did she?

I agree not all 6 year olds have road sense and the officer wasn't to know this although I think threatening to report to social services is a bit OTT

Bogeyface · 05/03/2011 17:45

Do you mean an actual caution? Or an informal "watch what you are doing in future" type caution? I thought that she had to sign something to accept a caution, not just get a bollocking on the street.

There is more to this than meets the eye, either the P.O. is lying or she is!

Bogeyface · 05/03/2011 17:47

X-post.

But your OP implied that he was being OTT, she said she would make a complaint and he immediately threatened her with SS.

I am a little confused now. What was she complaining about if she didnt get the caution on SS report until after she made the complaint?!

prettybird · 05/03/2011 17:47

Cars can and do drive into other cars - but we don't say never drive Hmm

My own ds was always told to stop and wait at any junction - and did. He was also, from age 3, being asked to tell me when it was safe to cross the road (meant a long wait sometime Wink) - which is why I was happy to start let him walking to school on his own from the age of 8.

grumpypants · 05/03/2011 17:48

she should be really careful about accepting a caution tho - is there a chance of a prosecution going ahead and succeeding? a caution shows up doesn't it, for some jobs? esp if it's for neglect?

Bogeyface · 05/03/2011 17:48

OR SS report

activate · 05/03/2011 17:52

I would not accept a caution if this is all it was about

parents are responsible for judging risk and it doesn't sound to me like child was in any danger

gorionine · 05/03/2011 17:54

"Most people think they're acting perfectly safely. If the policeman felt compelled to say something, chances are the situation looked pretty dangerous."

I think very differently, sometimes policemen are over zealous on trivial things and blind on others.

Last week we were in a nearby town with DH. We were walking along the pavement and could smell cannabis, DH turned around and saw it coming from a man smocking near his car, there was child about 2yo on the back seat (in child seat). Whilst the man was still smocking a policeman passed by and DH asked " Has cannabis been legalised ?" (he was asking genuinely as he was surprised the policeman did not seem at all bothered) the conversation went like that

PM : no it had not been legalised

DH: Can you not smell it?

PM : yes I can, do you know where it is coming from?

DH : From the man behind you about to drive off with his/a child in his car.

The policeman went ""oh well" and the car left driven by a man who had just been smocking dope. No attempt was made by the policeman to even advise the driver not to take the wheel and drive witrh a passenger after having smoked cannabis at all.

Also, for having been in the very same situation as kitsilano recently, (not a policeman though, a passer by) It does sometimes happen that people misjudge situations and the danger they think a child is put at risk by walking a few steps in front of his parent it does not give them the right to judge the parent as unfit and report them to social services..

The police officer wasn't to know the 6 yr old is well taught to stop and wait at roads though, is he?

No but he could have given a chance to the parent to explain that instead of threatening with SS surely?

gorionine · 05/03/2011 17:55

sorry X-posted terribly!Blush

Original poster
Kitsilano · 05/03/2011 17:57

Bogeyface - I'm a little confused now - this is what she told me but it may not all have been in the right order

she asked for number - then he said he would report her to social services

Today - she went to police station to complain. Was told it WOULD be reported to social services. She seems now to think she has a caution on her record. She didn't mention signing/agreeing to anything though so maybe she is mistaken.

OP posts:
SuchProspects · 05/03/2011 17:58

What would they be cautioning her for? Child neglect? Tell her not to accept a caution. They can't give her one if she won't accept it. And if she accepts it she is admitting to the crime. She should tell them if they honestly think it's criminal to let a 6 year old scoot on ahead a little they should test that belief in a court.

Birdsgottafly · 05/03/2011 17:59

It sounds as though they gave her a warning not a caution. She should not have accepted it if it was a caution. If she goes on the local police web site she can make a complaint from there.

SS will call to the house ask a few questions then that will be the end of it. SS have to follow up any lead given by the police.

SuchProspects · 05/03/2011 18:00

OP - did she still make a complaint about the officer?

Vicky2011 · 05/03/2011 18:02

I think there is more to this if she really has been given a caution. What is the caution for?

DilysPrice · 05/03/2011 18:03

If the mother did receive a formal caution at the station then she would have been admitting that she was guilty of a crime (who knows what - child neglect or endangerment perhaps) and it would remain on her criminal record for years, seriously restricting her ability to obtain some jobs or volunteer with children. Never accept a formal caution without legal advice.
Different if it was an informal verbal caution from the cop on the spot though.

VivaLeBeaver · 05/03/2011 18:05

I think its very wrong of the police officer to abuse his power in such a way. If he was about to drive off he obviously didn;t think the incident was actually serious enough to justify reporting her to social services. He only decided to report her to "punish" her for requesting his police number.

I hope your friend not only complains to the police about this but also makes social services aware of that. Hopefully they will also be pissed off that this copepr is wasting their time to get one up on someone who dared to disagree with them.

Original poster
Kitsilano · 05/03/2011 18:08

Maybe it was a warning? Would that still be on record? That is certainly her impression.

SuchProspects - she did make a complaint about the police officer and received a (very limited) apology for his manner/handling of the situation.

OP posts:
chicaguapa · 05/03/2011 18:14

Fwiw a little girl in DS's class fell off her scooter into the road and was hit by a bus. How she survived I'll never know, but she was very seriously injured and was in intensive care. She was 6 too like in the OP. So these kinds of accidents can easily happen and maybe the policeman was just asking OP's friend to be more careful? It sounds like he was just annoyed at being complained about.

worraliberty · 05/03/2011 18:14

I'm sure there's far more to this than meets the eye. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

Original poster
Kitsilano · 05/03/2011 18:19

I really honestly don't think there is - though I may be mistaken about the caution/vs warning - she is really outraged by this and I am sure wouldn't have signed anything.

OP posts:
penguin73 · 05/03/2011 18:22

I would rather an over-cautious policeman than an under-cautious one as far as child safety is concerned. Yes, he was over-zealous but do you really want to waste time and money making a complaint? The time and effort involved will be considerable when the police have far better things to be doing (and far more serious complaints to investigate).

Your friend has not received a caution unless she has given her personal details and received a piece of paper to say that is the case. If she has then a complaint from her might be justifiable, otherwise not. Either way it is her battle, not yours, but if it was me I would try to see the positives - his attitude might have made another person think, prevented an accident or saved a life.

prettybird · 05/03/2011 18:24

Note the bit about the "offender admits they committed the crime" - which I don't think your friend would have done.

However, for her peace of mind - she may need to have to go back to the police station to confirm that they haven't given her a caution Hmm - or even a warning, as I beleive that that can be kept on "local" police databases.