To be really disappointed with the NCT?

[3owls]

Just wanted to rant a bit about our NCT class. DH and I are first time parents and really just wanted to join a group where we could make friends and get some info on the birth/baby care process.

So we paid our £200 quid to join the NCT as so many people had said its fab.

What we didn't realise that the NCT isn't a "middle of the road or heres-the-info-make-your-own-mind-up" type class...

our leader is very, very holistic in her approach. she's hot on the whole home birth, incense and hypno birthing realm of labour and delivery. which i suppose for some people is exactly what they are looking for.

I, however, have had a very complicated pregnancy and will need a lot of medication/monitoring/medical support during labour and delivery. Thus most of whats being said is completely impractical and not useful.

We tend to leave feeling frustrated and annoyed. I spoke to another Mum in the area today about all this and she was quite surprised. Apparently there was a different teacher a few years ago who did just present facts and let you get on with it. So is this experience just bad luck or do most NCT classes push this agenda?

I think the NCT leader is probably just taking the angle on birth that she thinks is potentially least traumatic for mother and child.

I was cynical when i had dd1 i must admit, but the production line, hospital basement, being barked at by 12 different midwives, told not to scream first birth left me with PND and actual flashbacks, whereas my calm, gentle homebirth with dd2 was indeed everything it was cracked up to be.

I think the NCT doe sdo a lot of good work and I met some great friends through one of the coffee groups- pure good luck I think, as the actual classes themselves were deeply unhelpful and caused a couple of us real distress (surprise, those of us who did not have straightforward home births) and sadly the majority of the people I met through the classes were exceptionally humourless hippies of the very kind you would not believe could actually exist, insofar as they confirmed the stereotype so completely. It is the luck of the draw, I think!

yanbu

agree completely, little practical and alot of ethos

Speaking as someone who has had no involvement with the NCT other than attending a Nearly New Sale for the first time last week, I have to say I don't really see NCT as a charity, more a non-profit making organisation (I noticed the phrase 'the UK's largest charity for parents' on the balloon DD got at the sale).

I did investigate the antenatal classes when pg with DD1 but the cost put me off. I know there are subsidies available but I assume that these wouldn't apply to DH and me as we are in relatively well paid jobs, it was more the principle of paying out that kind of money for things that I felt I knew a lot about already through my own reading.

While at the sale, one of the volunteers pointed out to DH that there was a specific event/group running locally for pregnant parents with children already, which would apply to us but it was £5 a ticket to go - not a king's ransom but if it really was a charity, surely the funds they do have would be diverted to grassroots events like this to get more people to come along and get involved?

IME, La Leche League seemed much more geared up as a charity, I went along to a lot of meetings for practical advice and support and did not have to pay a penny and I intend to go back when on mat leave for DC2.

The NCT does actively promote natural, positive birth experiences, so it should not be too much of a surprise to anyone to find that that is what is prioritised. That is the experience that the NCT would like everyone to have and that is why they pitch their teaching at that level.

Having said that, a good teacher should be able to cover all the needs of their students, so it is probably worth having a chat. I think you need to be aware that, as someone who already knows that their birth experience is likely to be highly medicalised, you are probably not the average NCT course attendee - that is not to say that your needs shouldn't be catered for, but it does mean that you probably need to be clear about what it is that you are hoping to get out of the classes.

Also, just because you can't do homebirthing/hypnobirthing/whatever she is promoting, it does not mean that all aspects of those topics are irrelevant to your own needs.

Are you sure you are not simply too early in the course to have covered some of the other birth options? We did the crash course over a weekend and we started off with the "ideal" birth experience and ways to try to help ourselves get that, and moved on to the "what ifs" later on in the class. The second day was mainly post-natal.

Well obviously everyone would like a natural, positive birth experience. However when the time comes things are not always that simple. Someone who ends up with a difficult delivery through no fault of their own has not failed, they are unlucky. But the NCT wrongly gives the impression that this is second-best.

"The NCT does actively promote natural, positive birth experiences"

Isn't it fairly non-controversial that a positive experience is better than a difficult one?

The NCT doesn't give the impression that a difficult delivery is second-best - for the vast majority of women, it IS second-best. I am sure there are very few women who approach the birth experience thinking "ooh, I hope this is good and difficult".

There may be some individual teachers who don't sensitively handle the issue of people's experiences not being what they wanted, but surely the NCT should not stop trying to help women get the most positive experience?

It does sound like you've had bad luck but you really do need to tell the teacher that the class is not meeting your needs.

We did the NCT class and it was useful. The teacher spent the first session talking about our expectations of birth and what the classes should cover. Pretty much all of us wanted as unmedicalised a birth as possible, and the teacher gently pointed out that it would be wise to cover drugs, epidural and caesarean too, in case any of us changed our minds or went down those routes in the end. Very sensible woman!

The breastfeeding class was good too, up to the obvious limitation of not actually having a baby or a breastfeeding mother to show us how it worked! I have since heard complaints from other parents in our area that it doesn't cover bottle feeding, but I would never have thought it would, and I read up on bottle feeding in case I was going to need that information.

But even if that's how some people see it, my problem with the NCT is their approach that if only you'd done this or that, you'd have had a better experience, i.e. it's Your Own Fault. I don't see how you can "promote" a positive birth experience as if it's something to be advertised

"for the vast majority of women, it IS second-best"

It would also be sensible to make sure that you really know what you want her to cover, rather than focussing on what is not helpful, if that makes sense.

The things that are unhelpful for you are almost certainly helpful for some other members of the class, so you are unlikely to get anywhere by telling the teacher what you don't find useful. Why not give her an idea of what you already know is likely to happen at your labour and birth, and ask her to cover specific things like relevant interventions/relaxation techniques relevant to a medicalised birth/positions that you might be able to use/information your DP will need to know and things like that. She is much more likely to respond positively if you approach her positively.

Of course you can promote birth as a positive experience - by holding courses that teach the techniques that can, in many circumstances, help people to achieve what they want.

The negative approach is not an NCT-wide thing - again, SOME teachers have been criticised for this approach, not all by any means. The NCT ethos is pretty simple - they would like all women to be as happy as possible with their labour and birth and so they offer them the tools that might help them get there. There may well be some people in the NCT who are judgemental about births that are not "perfect" but that doesn't mean that the organisation as a whole should stop trying.

Not every class/teacher will be perfect for every person, but there are some brilliant teachers out there and there are, I am sure, plenty of women who have said a big thank you to their NCT teacher for improving their own experiences.

I didnt do NCT but have a friend who had a similar experience to many of those here. The teacher was very into drug free child birth (didnt National used to be Natural??). When my friend stuck her hand up to ask if they could give any info about epidurals etc she said that from the look the teacher gave her, she might as well have been asking about when she could start thinking about satanic rights for the baby!!! She was appallingly under prepared for the birth (didnt know how many cms you needed to be dilated bf asking for an epidural for example). There are some quite terrible classes out there.

I'm curious, those that have had a poor experience what have you done about it? Did you complain? Give constructive feedback? And if so what happened?

Where I live NHS classes are woefully inadequate. I wasn't even offered the option so without the NCT I'd have been stuck. I thought my antenatal teacher was wonderful. She was sensible, practical and covered epiduarals and c-sections thoroughly. In my class alone we had one elective c-section and one planned homebirth with the rest wanting mlu or an epidural.

I formed some great friendships and we all thought the classes were brilliant and no-one felt excluded. One of the girls is pg with dc2 and planning to do a refresher course because the first was so good.

The NCT is a charity. They do a lot of good - lobbying, activism, evidenced based research, training, support, helplines etc and rely a lot on volunteers. I didn't think my local branch was doing enough so I got up off my backside and did something about it. I now volunteer and all activities I plan are either free or very low cost (£5 fee is ridiculous. £5 deposit refundable if you show up or suggested donation fair enough). I recently turned down the chance to do a spa event for £45 a ticket because that is not accessible to everyone.

I don't know if it's because we're in an area with more order mums but most of my branch's committee have had at least one c-section. Quite a few of us have bottle fed. We're very inclusive but I'm working hard to make us more accessible including making better links with the local community and HCPs. We don't offer enough funded classes in my branch. We need to do more and we're working on it.

To quote Honda "hate something, change something, make something better".

OP forgot to add yanbu to be disappointed from what you've said but please speak to the teacher. You should have been asked about what you wanted on the agenda and if you weren't please speak to the Parent Service Administrator (or email her).

I didn't find they promoted drug free birth at all - we talked a lot about pain relief in labour and the benefits and advantages of everything. It was invaluable. The teachers do vary though- the one I had in my first pregnancy was brilliant. She'd had four children of her own and talked about her own birth experiences, from caesarian to water birth. Also four mum "graduates" from the group with babies of a couple of months old came to talk to us about labour, breastfeeding and early parenthood. Was brilliant.

Was way too preachy and "give birth to whale song" for me. Then after DD1 was born came the breast-feeding nazis from the La Leche league.
have nowt to do with either of them and you'll manage anyway and save yourself money.

Dementedma - the term "breastfeeding nazis" is considered very offensive on MN and people are asked not to use it.

Also, aren't the La Leche league a free organisation who offer help to people who ASK for help? Hardly breastfeeding nazis!

I always got the impression that these classes were run by middle-class hippies who told you that a bit of aromatherapy could get you through childbirth, and that breasfeeding was the only option.
From reading most of these posts, seems like my impression was right!!

lots of people with opinions of things they've never experienced

Yes but also a lot of have experienced it and had very similar experiences.

And lots haven't who speak from direct experience. There are 65,000 NCT antenatal classes per year run by self-employed teachers of which it is likely there will be some courses that are not up to much just because of the volumes. Not that this makes it acceptable of course but unless the organisation knows they can't do anything about it.

Really the NHS should offer comprehensive maternity services but it just doesn't and the NCT tries to make things better and for the most part does a good job so I am allowed to feel a bit exasperated by people coming on going "oh yes they're rubbish" when they've never been near an NCT class.

I have never heard of an NCT class which included whale song on its agenda. Though if a class member wanted to bring it up as a topic, a good teacher would include it :)

I don't understand the criticism of La leche league - they don't do anything or say anything to mothers who have not asked, specifically, for help. Same with NCT breastfeeding counsellors (I am one). We work in classes, and we respond to people who contact us. There is no proactive contact at all.

Second your post kungfupanda.

LLL do not spent their time criticising FF, they have much better things to do.

I loved the meetings, met a wide spectrum of people and covered a wide variety of topics in the group discussions. Made me more aware there are many ways to parent.

I suppose they did fleece me of my cash as once or twice I remembered to bring some grapes or a packet of biscuits for the meeting

I have only scanned this thread as I haven't got time to read it all right now, but have heard this sort of thing before and I also felt a bit this way about my NCT classes. One of my fellow classmates was so upset by it all that she did write and complain to the NCT, they did follow up with phone calls and letters from head office but whether anything really changed as a result I don't know. I thought the classes were fine, it was more the teacher's reaction afterwards when only 1 out of 5 of us managed an unassisted delivery and then shock horror some used formula.

However, I made the best group of friends ever at my class, and have volunteered for the NCT for 7 years and overall it has been one of the most valuable supports I have had as a parent, I know many others who feel the same way.

OP, it's a real shame that you haven't found the classes to be the experience that they should be. The classes should be about providing you with information and providing support for you regardless of your choices/ what medical needs dictate etc. KatieMiddleton's point is a good one - the teacher needs feedback from you so that the classes can be geared towards the attendee's needs properly and if you feel that she doesn't take it on board then raise it with the PSA who can then look into it for you.

I was lucky that I had a brilliant teacher who was very practical and gave us information on all aspects of pregnancy, labour and birth. She gave us all the opportunity to say at the outset of the course what we wanted on the agenda and she made sure that all the issues were covered. None of us were made to feel as if we were wrong for the decisions that we made at any stage. In fact, she was great at our first meet up after the birth as made sure we all had the opportunity to talk about our experiences. The fact that neither she nor the rest of the class were judgmental was fantastic in recovering from a birth which was the complete opposite to what I had hoped for. Maybe it was because we bonded well as a group but the support was there when a couple of us ended up with emcs and others, including myself, struggled massively with BF. Three years on and I am still friends with my NCT teacher and the girls in my class and I have volunteered (intermittently!) for my local branch over the past two years. We've all provided shoulders to cry on, tea or wine when required, practical advice and a good dose of humour!

The NCT is a charity and, like many other organisations, it relies heavily on organising fundraising events etc to bring in funds to expand services at branch level. Our fundraising efforts within the branch mean that we can run more non-paying events for people to attend and get the support that they need. There is a massive gap in the support that the NHS can offer so charities like the NCT are vital to ensure that parents do get as much support as they can in those sleepless first few months and beyond and do not feel like they are struggling alone. This is the reason that I was motivated to volunteer after the birth of DS. The members, teachers and volunteers for the NCT are probably more diverse than people realise and I can honestly say that the people I've met so far through my local branch are as far removed from lentil weaving hippies stereotype as you can imagine including myself !

OP, I really hope you get the opportunity to raise your concerns with the teacher/ PSA and the classes become a more positive and useful experience for you. If nothing else, I hope that the others that you meet through the classes will become friends and will provide you with a great support network.