to think elective repeat caesarian is a valid choice?

[schmee]

I'm currently pregnant with DC3 and would like to have a repeat c-section. I had a planned c-section last time as had twins, one of whom was breach. I haven't seen the consultant yet, so I don't know if I'll be allowed one on the NHS but I hope so.

I remember last time round people saying "oooh I don't blame you if you're having twins" when I said I was booked into for a section. I really don't understand what "blame" has to do with it, particularly as the decision was made to safeguard the health of my twins. This time round if I say my preference is for a repeat c-section the response is even worse, with people from frenemies to strangers feeling able to question my choice and try to get me to reconsider. WHY?

I wondered if people here think repeat c-section is a valid choice. And whether anyone's mind about planned sections had been changed by watching One Born last night which showed what a calm and baby-focussed scenario a scheduled section can be.

No I don't think it's a valid choice. It's major surgery and has many complications that go with it.
An unecessary surgery is not and shoul not be a choice, unless you want to pay for it in which case you can do as you please.

Csection is a great option where vaginal delivery is not possible, or where mum or baby's health is in danger.

So yabu

Ok I had an emergency CS due to an undiagnosed breech (was 21 years ago) - DD was 8lb 13oz and was not going to come naturally any way. She was stuck under my ribcage and they had to tug her out even during a CS! The recovery was slow and I had an infection and the wound opened up again - yuk!

Two years later I had DS (also 8lb 13oz) naturally - well gas and air, pethidine but NO epidural as the anaethetist (sp) was busy. Did tear but no probs with that really.

Much preferred the natural way - couldn't believe I could actually get up and walk straight away! I really don't understand why anyone would choose to have a major abdominal operation if they didn't need to.

If people want pain free would you not get that by having an epidural?

VBAC's aren't for everyone, depending on what a previous section is for then I'll often agree a subsequent section is a good idea. It is a valid choice. Childbirth is one of those things that I strongly believe should be approached with the mindset of it being 'normal' a woman who has already had a previous section is already high risk, it is valid for her and those caring for her to view her pregnancy as such.

Having had two natural births and one C-section I can't understand why anyone would choose to have one. If there are medical reasons then fair enough but otherwise I don't get it. Its a major operation and takes much longer to recover from than a normal vaginal delivery. Plus you have to stay in hospital longer.

"How sad the jumping on the word mysogyny to justify any argument in a totally patronising way towards women who may offer a different point of view to each other."

But it is misogyny. If you think women shouldn't be allowed elective c-sections, and generally this also goes with epidurals, even milder types of pain relief, you aer saying women should suffer unnecessarily. If you liked women you wouldn't hold that view. It really is misogyny at its simplest.

If you were coming at it from a - women are sold ELCS when it's not good for them and it's just a way to make women's natural birthing experience into a medicalised conveyor belt, I could totally respect that, although I don't agree, because at least that view is born (lol) from concern for women, and not from contempt!

Oh and the option of section because you don't want to feel any pain always makes me laugh. It's major surgery and not only is it major surgery you are expected to cope with and look after a newborn baby straight afterwards, it's no walk in the park.

I had an elective section with DD (my only child) and it was wonderful, lovely easy operation, they sent me home a day earlier than predicted as they said I was disgustngly well, and generally couldn't have been a more positive experience.

I had no desire to give birth naturally because, as FabbyChic so delicately put it, I couldn't be arsed with the labour pains. I'm not a fan of any kind of pain and avoid it where possible, so when it turned out that a medical condition that I have made the chances of giving birth naturally extremely slim I was thrilled. Felt like a little bit of payback from all the problems that this medical condition over the years. And now I have a fantastic DD who I bonded with from the second I saw her.

No one has ever actually challenged me on it, maybe because I'm always so positive about the experience when I talk about it, but I would laugh at them if they did, why on earth would it matter to them?

"If people want pain free would you not get that by having an epidural?"

I think the problem with epidurals can be that the labour is too long because the woman can't feel when to push, right? Whereas if you're having a section the baby is pretty much guaranteed to come out quickly enough. :)

Rinabean do you believe women should be offered C-Sections 'just because'?

Yes, totally!

I don't know many women who would opt for C section because they don't want the pain. Some maybe, but that's ok. Most people want the traditional route. So the idea that someone may get a section because they don't like pain doesn't keep me awake at night.

Oh ok. I could totally have got on board with women being offered sections for medical reasons and issues surrounding previous births etc. But just because? Nah, can't get with that at all.

I'd have a natural delivery just for the morphine they give you, its fecking marvelous!!!

I had an elective section due to my congenital hip dysplasia, could have pushed for vaginal but didn't particularly want to.

When I had my 2nd the midwife told me that I had to have another elective as I had had one the first time around, that is the policy here at least.

I couldn't fault it, the not driving for 6 weeks thing is a pita but the planned element makes things much simpler and the staff and care was great.

However, after my 2nd birth the m/w did say I probably shouldn't have anymore as they don't like to perform more than 2 and there is no chance they would let you have a vbac after 2 sections. I'm not planning anymore anyway, am pretty sure if it happened they would just get on an do another section though, it much happen all the time. I bet VB has another section for example, although private hospitals may have different policies again.

So OP, YANBU I used to say I was too posh to push too when people commented, it was only what they were thinking anyway!

And FWIW I've always heard that sections are safer for babies than vaginals births too.

The comment about not having a 4th c-section I think probably relates to the fact that each c-section weakens the wall of the uterus because of the scar tissue.

So it used to be said that you shouldn't have more than 3 c-sections, ie, stop your family at that number not have another one and try vbac.

However as with everything it depends on the individual, so during my 3rd c-section the Dr commented that my uterus scar was lovely and I'd be fine to go on and have a 4th c-section if I so desired.

C-sections aren't just given out willy nilly - you do have to justify it if you want one even if you've had one previously.

I see elective C Sections for non health reasons like boob jobs and gastric bands. If people want them, they should go private. The NHS is skint enough without pandering to people willing to get pregnant but unwilling to give birth.

I have had three CS - first an emergency after long labour and breech baby. 2 and 3 were elective. had an excrutiating spinal headache after 2 when it all went a bit wrong and i felt a lot of the procedure. number 3 was absolutley fine.
Should have put a zip in the first time

After my EC I held baby straight away and was up and running 2 days later. I think it makes a difference have a great surgeon and having it elective rather than emergency.
I found it a fantastic positive pain free experience. Not for everyone but great for me.

DrMcDreamy I agree - the days after a CS are very painful and unpleasant - I just don't see how it can be considered the pain free easy option.

Unless it's also a case of keeping you lady parts intact?

In response to mosschops I'm convinced that if I end up having one it will be for valid medical reasons (the consultant won't agree to it if there aren't any). And my post is about repeat sections.

But actually I think I do believe it's a valid choice for everyone. In any other medical situation a person wouldn't be expected to undergo that pain and part of their body ripping apart if there was an alternative.

My thoughts? Personal choice. I think there are many reasons for a c-section and if there is a strong maternal preference and the risks involved are outlined then maternal preference should be acceded to (with grace). Do I think YABU for wanting an elective c section second time around? Nope, if that's what you want and that is what you feel will offer you the greater birth experience.

From my personal experience, a c sections is the last thing on earth I ever want to go through again. My personal happy memory is coming around from the general anaesthetic retching, feeling everything (as if my stomach would tear open) - just blinding, tearing agony. That's the abiding memory of my daughters' (twins) birthday. I'm sick with fear at the prospect of having to have another one this time around and am doing all I can to swerve it. Not because I feel the need to prove my strength as a woman in toughing out labour pains or any such bullsh!t (having endured the recovery period of my car crash section I'm all to aware of how much pain can be involved in having a baby, even if it isn't by the 'orthodox' vaginal route) but because I never ever want to feel that level of pain, incapacitation and illness again. I also don't want someone to come along and make another mess of my insides as they did last time (adhesions, haematomas, damaged pubic bone, etc). It was no easy way out.

What I do think is unreasonable is when people assume that c sections are a walk in the park for everyone and merely the choice of women who a)can't be arsed to deal with the pain of labour and b) want to fit it around picking up their dry cleaning. A vaginal birth can be truly horrendous and damaging but so too can a c section. What should be uniform is the right of women to make informed choices about their mode of delivery and to do so without criticism from armchair experts or pressure from stats-focusssed medical staff.

I think it's sad that women don't want to give birth naturally.

I too, had a home birth Valhalla, without pain relief, exceptionally fast, and my ds was born in the back of an ambulance, perfectly well.

I'd do that labour 10 times over, than opt in for surgery. I don't use the NHS (except for emergencies) but if I did I wouldn't want to drain resources, or take up surgeons' valuable time by demanding a bed because "I'm too posh to push".

Some women need to grow up, grin and bear it.

YANBU

I had an emc in 2003 at 36.5 and after the trauma (and it was a trauma) of the birth, I requested an elc in 2010, my HCP's tried their hardest to talk me in to a VBAC but I was having none of it, I knew I would be in for the same rough ride if I decided to try the VBAC. After a few meetings with these HCP's my elc was booked for 40 weeks. Bang on 36.1 my waters broke and my second dc was born by cs at 36.3.

Sod what other people think...

your body
your baby
your choice

If I got pregnant again I will be having an EMCS. I went through 3 1/2 days of labour with DD, and it ended in EMCS. I reckon I had at least 2 labours worth of pain in one go there, so no way on gods earth I'm going through that again

Besides I read the success rate of an VBAC is only about 50%, so not brilliant odds of it working out anyway. And an elective CS is definitely safer than an emergency one.

Well said Kitstwins totally agree.