to think elective repeat caesarian is a valid choice?

[schmee]

I'm currently pregnant with DC3 and would like to have a repeat c-section. I had a planned c-section last time as had twins, one of whom was breach. I haven't seen the consultant yet, so I don't know if I'll be allowed one on the NHS but I hope so.

I remember last time round people saying "oooh I don't blame you if you're having twins" when I said I was booked into for a section. I really don't understand what "blame" has to do with it, particularly as the decision was made to safeguard the health of my twins. This time round if I say my preference is for a repeat c-section the response is even worse, with people from frenemies to strangers feeling able to question my choice and try to get me to reconsider. WHY?

I wondered if people here think repeat c-section is a valid choice. And whether anyone's mind about planned sections had been changed by watching One Born last night which showed what a calm and baby-focussed scenario a scheduled section can be.

'It is not right that you have a section just because you don't want to give birth naturally.'

If you'd bothered to read the thread and posts, bampot's and my most recent post were in response to a member who had an ELCS and who also has a mental illness who is being offered a choice of VBAC or ELCS by her doctors, she's not being offered this 'just because'.

scroobiuspip the difference in cost is far from insignificant.

@ Healthiswealth 'If you don't want to give birth naturally either get therapy or don't get pregnant.'

And there are some that would argue people who write sentences like 'read properly why dontcha?' should get some English help before child rearing too

Surely the point is that the nhs don't offer elcs "just because". If there isn't a valid reason, you won't get one. If there is, you will.

DrMcDreamy - re cost, there does seem to be a range of figures suggested on this thread but on the whole the cost does not seem to be disproportional - certainly not so disproportional as to warrant ruling out a CS for those who chose that option. For example, it seems to be accepted that women have the right to a homebirth involving two midwives yet the cost of that (bearing in mind the standing costs of running a hospital on top) seem to be comparable to a CS. Yet no one is suggesting that home births should not be available.

Personally, FWIW, I think maternity services deserve a bigger slice of the pie - so that all women can have the birth that they consider, on an informed basis, is best for them.

Well I was offered a planned section because I said I was worried about giving birth after my first somewhat traumatic experience.
I don't think that the consultant should have given in to me that easily. I wish that I had had the proper support to at least give it a go.
I know what I have said is somewhat controversial and will get some people's backs up. It is what I feel though.

vmdc28 - but why is that?

As other posters have already said, there is plenty of other elective surgery available on the NHS, vasectomy being a classic example - parents have plenty of other birth control options but no one would suggest for one minute that vasectomies shouldn't be available. Ditto bariatric surgery.

Pregnant women are treated like minors, viewed as somehow incapable of making the best decision for themselves. Why don't we trust them to listen to the pros and cons and decide for themselves what it best for them?

with a home birth the midwives leave after the birth, you are not taking up an nhs bed at home. 2 midwives are not there throughout the labour either.
My first ones arrived well in to established labour. Infact for the second HB one midwive came, decided I wasn't far enough along and said she had to leave and come back later as the nhs couldn't afford for her to be hanging around with me, as much as she wanted to.!!
The second midwife arrived approx half an hour before I delivered and both were gone again 1.5 hours post birth. Hardly a great drain on nhs resources

Flippinpeedoff - agree that you should have had the support to do what you thought was best for you and your baby. If you wanted a VBAC, you should have had support to enable your birth of choice. I'm sorry you didn't get it.

But if other women want a CS, I believe they should be allowed to opt for that, and not be put in the undignified position of having to beg for it from a consultant.

scroobious, you are right. What should happen is a shed load of money needs to be poured into maternity services. I am convinced that with proper midwife support( not support from poor midwives who are stretched to the limit, exhausted and demoralised) there would be far, far fewer em cs in the first place leading to far fewer requests for repeat sections.
It's such a bloody false economy to reduce antenatal care. A fully supported woman is much more likely to get a good VB and much less likely to suffer the horrors of pnd which of course also costs the nhs money.

Scroobiuspip - I agree though! I had an elcs after traumatic first vb. My point was simply that there are people saying that women shouldn't be allowed an elcs "just because". But women are NOT allowed an elcs just because, so they don't have to keep pushing this point.

Fwiw, I agree with you - they SHOULD be allowed one just because! A valid reason for one woman is not a valid reason for another - none of us should be deciding for others.

Flippinpeedoff
I don't think anyone on here would disagree with you for not getting the support you wanted to make the right choice. Sorry about that. You are saying exactly what most of us are saying information and choice should be there.

Some home births will be very inexpensive for the NHS equally some with complications and an ambulance to hospital will end up costing more than a c section. Ultimately it doesn't matter, informed choice is the key.

We are all different and should be treated as such. What I don't understand is that some women on here are so closed minded that they can't see that we are all different and feel different about birth. Some of us can't or don't want a vaginal birth other really want one. It's about time women started supporting each other rather than condemning each other for having different physical or mental needs in childbirth.

Hysterectomy is another example of surgery that is not totally necessary if you use the argument some people have on here against elective c sections. Why not use protection rather than use NHS money and have invasive surgery. Why, because we live in a country where we can and should choose from what is medically possible. That includes c sections.

Lets start supporting other women rather than condemning their choices and work together to ensure we have all the information we need to individually make the right choices for ourselves. Then support each others informed choice even if it wouldn't be our own choice.

'Hysterectomy is another example of surgery that is not totally necessary if you use the argument some people have on here against elective c sections. Why not use protection rather than use NHS money and have invasive surgery.'

FYI, hysterectomy is not performed on the NHS for contraceptive purposes. It's used to treat serious medical conditions such as fibroids or cancer or in extreme emergency situations.

Female sterilisation is performed on the NHS, and at present in most trusts it's done under a GA laparoscopically, but some trusts are currently moving to performing it under local via other methods like Essure.

Also this thread and OP are about people who've already had a CS. In most trusts, you can't have a homebirth after having had a CS.

Ex Pat thank you for the details on female sterilisation but my point still stands. It is done on the NHS and is not strictly necessary.

sometimes a hysterectomy is very necessary.

I had an Em CS due to not being able to dilate past 4cm and then my dd went into distress. i fell pregnant almost straight away (was bf ) and my next dd came along 11 months later. I was told I could give a VB a go but if it looked like I was about to burst then they would go for another CS. I cried in relief when then told me I could opt for an elective. It was so much easier for me the second time around. YANBU

Before anyone else says it....I worded my post wrong it should read female sterilisation not hysterectomy

SORRY!

I had a necessary hysterectomy so I wouldn't get cervical cancer.

I had an EMCS with my daughter, 2 weeks later, 4 days after my waters broke and following over 24 hours of drip-induced labour where absolutely nothing was within my control.

I am not planning to have any more children, but if I did there is no way on God's green earth I would try for a natural birth and risk being in that situation again if I had the option of an ELCS.

It's your birth - do what's right for you.

Meglet

I am sorry to hear that.

I meant hysterectomy for female sterilisation purposes like family planning. I have been corrected a few times now and I have explained what I meant a few times too. I am so sorry I worded it wrongly.

I've just read all the posts since I was last on here yesterday.

It is so hard to describe the absolute fear that you have of VB when you've had a terrifying and agonising experience previously, that either ended up with an EMCS or a traumatic and very painful VB.

It truly does leave you with emotional scars. Not to mention that, physically, the recovery time is long, your body has been through the worst of traumas, often for many many hours. As I said before, my own experience, also left me with MH problems which have been a constant battle to live with and I have had many years of counselling. When you are left in this position, it impacts on every other part of your life too and I cannot find any other words but horrific to describe it.

I'll be perfectly honest on here now too, that the only reason I'm even considering a VBAC is because of this idea I have in my head of "am I a proper woman if I don't at least try?" Is this something that I am thinking for myself though or is it something that is being projected onto me by others? I'm not singling anyone out for criticism, because everyone has to have the right to their own choice, but to be perfectly honest comments such as those that flippin has voiced are not helping me to think of myself first. Again, honesty is called for and it is comments such as those, that are making me feel very guilty for even considering myself first at all. So then I ask the questions, should I be thinking of myself first, my needs, my fears or should I be trying to have a VBAC no matter what, because it is what I should do as a woman?

Libra, please consider possibly working through your feelings with a counsellor or talking to your psych nurse or consultant about all this before making a final decision, if it's possible, because even if you decide to go for VBAC, you need to be prepared mentally if things don't go to plan, IYKWIM. :)

Hi expat that's actually very good advice and I'm grateful to hear it. I am under the care of the Peri-natal Mental Health Team for Hampshire and have a great psychiatric team supporting me. I'll give them a call and arrange a meeting with them and go through it all carefully.

You're right in what you say too, about being prepared mentally if things don't go to plan and I think this is the route of the fear IYKWIM!

I'm so confused about how I feel about it all, I just don't know and that's making me even more scared I think, because I don't trust my own judgement in this and it's too important not to be prepared, as much as one can be.

I'm really grateful to you expat for the advice you've been giving me

After my first section, for medical reasons, they gave me the choice to have a planned section or not as having a vaginal birth after a section is slighty more risky, a small chance your scar can tear internally. Even if you opt for a vbac, vaginal birth after cs, they call it a trial labour. Meaning the will let you try but monitor you very closely and if they unhappy about anything they take you straight for cs. So yes I would say it is a valid choice.