to think elective repeat caesarian is a valid choice?

[schmee]

I'm currently pregnant with DC3 and would like to have a repeat c-section. I had a planned c-section last time as had twins, one of whom was breach. I haven't seen the consultant yet, so I don't know if I'll be allowed one on the NHS but I hope so.

I remember last time round people saying "oooh I don't blame you if you're having twins" when I said I was booked into for a section. I really don't understand what "blame" has to do with it, particularly as the decision was made to safeguard the health of my twins. This time round if I say my preference is for a repeat c-section the response is even worse, with people from frenemies to strangers feeling able to question my choice and try to get me to reconsider. WHY?

I wondered if people here think repeat c-section is a valid choice. And whether anyone's mind about planned sections had been changed by watching One Born last night which showed what a calm and baby-focussed scenario a scheduled section can be.

boobalina, it is time to calm down.

Clytaemnestra'
'So while I appreciate it's not like that for everyone, blanket statements about how awful it is are scaremongering.'

Not scaremongering - I am actually amazed that some people have had a CS and been pain free afterwards. Just wouldn't have thought that was possible after major abdominal surgery. It's certainly not an experience I would ever have chosen to repeat.

Lady of the manor gets on my nipples

"...partially because DD1 was born so fast and there was a level crossing between my house and the hospital so chances were that I might have ended up giving birth in the car. "

Sorry Valhalla, I misread that I thought you had a home birth and there was the risk of getting caught up the second time.

Just had another horrible thought.

The whole, sections are shit because you're bed-bound for 6 weeks thing (which I gather isn't generally the case anyway?) If you're bed-bound for 6 weeks you have a fairly decent excuse for not showing up at work the next day and contributing to the holy economy. And it's major surgery which means people have to be nice to you, as opposed to pushing a human out of your genitals which is just day-to-day stuff that women make too much of a fuss about.

If this was anything to do with money and not to do with misogyny, there'd be no scorn heaped on the women who have private sections, would there?

Thanks for making me thoroughly miserable, OP No, this thread has raised a lot of interesting points and really made me think. Thank you :)

This thread isn't about that though ladyofthemanor.

It's about women opting for a CS after a previous CS. Presumably if they've already had a CS they didn't have a normal pregnancy and/or labour.

schmee you don't ave to tell me about the pain of c section, I am well aware of how bad it can be.
My post was in response to those posters who've had sections because they didn't fancy the pain of giving birth naturally. Not directed at people who've had sections for medical reasons

YANBU at all! I had a c-section with DD as she was breech. Didn't want it and was dreading it but turned out to be a great experience and fast recovery. When pregnant with DS was told by NHS even if they did agree to do an ELCS, they would set the date late so more chance of going into labour and being too late for CS! Luckily for me DS was also breech, so no argument in the end. For me it was not concern about labour pains at all (I went into labour early with DD so although elective turned out to be emergency), just something I was familiar with and felt comfortable with. I don't think women should be able to choose willy nilly to have a CS for no reason, but after having one already where the risks of VBAC are, albeit only slightly, higher than without a previous CS, I do think a woman should be able to choose what she feels most happy with. Whilst CS is more risky for the woman, it is actually safer for the baby. I was told this by a midwife trying to persuade me to go VBAC.

It's up to the individual IMO. There are risks of both modes of birth. It's up to the mother which set of risks are most paletable to her.

A CS often isn't about not wanting to be arsed with the pain. I would take the pain of labour to post-operative pain any day. I wouldn't take that horrid panicked hour when they thought my baby might be in serious trouble again though. It's about risk assessment for most people I think.

Kitstwins - I was in a lot more pain after my crash section than I was after my awake emcs (although admittedly not the agony you describe). I think it is because I hadn't had a spinal and then afterwards I got a short of morphine (makes me puke too) followed by ... paracetomol (yes really). After my first emcs I was numb from the waist down for hours which was infinitely more pleasant.

But each pregnancy is different is it not? Some women has emergency cs and then have normal births the next time around.

If they same issues cropped up the second time then by all means, go into surgery, but this shouldn't be an option because women don't want to "give birth".

rinabean - I was up and about the next morning (CS was at 3PM). Home after 2 nights in hospital then I was out and about with DD on day 5, just with DH to a local cafe but still. Never felt bedbound or restricted at all. Never took anything but paracetemol once I was home as never needed it.

I had a normal (normal being the operative word) birth to healthy 8lb baby, without tearing, so it is possible for women to give birth and not turn themselves inside out.

I was so ripped apart internally after a ventouse delivery that blood was hitting the walls 3 or 4 feet away from the bed, according to my then DH and midwife. Only my threat to sue the hospital if they tried it prevented them from taking me into theatre to stitch me up - they told me I might well die.

So fuck off with the smug, ignorant remarks Lady because as I said, sixteen years later the memory is still there.

Thanks, Clytaemnestra. Do you know if your experience is closer to the norm? I would imagine so but I don't know.

Sorry, the first sentence above was a quote from Lady and NOT my own view.

yanbu at all

But the success rate of a normal birth after a CS is only 50%.

And EMCS after hours of labour can be a horrible experience and takes longer to recover from than an elective. So you weigh up the odds.

It's much more difficult to have a 'normal' birth the 2nd time round as you need to be monitored so can't be upright / active etc.

Lady you clearly have no idea of the terror that a failed and painful labour can inspire. Fear for yourself, fear for your baby's life.

Schmee - had placenta praevia and recurrant bleeding so was in hospital from 30 weeks. A caesarean was scheduled for 36 weeks, so I guess you could say I was booked in for an 'elective'. Not a huge amount of choice as I was bleeding all over the place and one of the placentas was partially obscuring my cervix. Lady of the Manor you would no doubt castigate me for not 'grinning and bearing it' or trying hard enough. Honestly, using the term "too posh to push" is just so uninformed and twattish - it's actually quite embarrassing that someone could be so ill-informed about things but I guess if you're so busy patting yourself on the back about your own superior birthing experience and crowing about lack of pain relief you wouldn't have the time or empathy to investigate the realities of caesarean operations beyond Daily Mail/Celebrity myths.

In the end I had an emergency at 35 weeks after a massive bleed in the night. It was under a general anaesthetic because my epidural and spinal blocks failed so GA was the only option left. It was hideously painful as obviously there was no pain relief or numbing in place and any pain relief administered when I came round was retrospective and didn't really touch the sides. I know what happened to me was rare and unfortunate but for me it's the reality of c sections, just as for some women the reality of vaginal births are all about pain and trauma.

"I object to women "opting in" when they have had normal pregnancies/labours and are otherwise fit and healthy."

I think very, very few women would opt for surgery over a natural birth. Especially when they see the size of the needle that goes in your back, the terrible nausea when they stitch the seventh layer of skin back up, the canula and catheter, the anaemia through blood loss etc

I partly posted this because someone had a go at me about wanting a repeat section this morning, and partly because I was watching One Born last night which just had two planned sections on it. It reminded me about how with a calm planned section the focus becomes all about the baby and you get to greet your baby without hours of fearing for the baby's and your health.

I have huge respect for people who give birth naturally but I don't understand why we would denigrate people who chose that calm, baby-centred experience.

Yes there is loads of pain afterwards, but I would choose that any day for being able to focus on my baby as I meet him or her.

And I do agree with rinabean that it is a women's issue. I think we undermine ourselves by criticising each other's choices and trying to restrict choice and progress.

poodle - that is so true, because that is the equation.

VBAC with 50% chance of EMCS vs. ELCS.

I really wouldn't want my EMCS recovery over again, but with an ELCS I would be unlikely to have such a bad experience because I wouldn't be exhausted from labour before I even started.

Kits, I suggest before you start with your silly comments, you read back over what I said.

Emergency cs are perfectly fine.

It's people who think they are above normal births that really grate on me.

YANBU, if I have another DC is would definitely request an ELCS, I had an EMCS with DS a year ago and I don't think I could cope with the disappointment of trying to have a VBAC and then being told oh no sorry you're having a EMCS again.....

I had an elcs for dc3, he ended up in scbu for 8 days with breathing difficulties, so I don't think it is always the safest option for the baby.

But then there are no guarantees with childbirth, vaginal or caesarean.

I don't understand the idea that it is a 'pain free' option, I know that a lot of people recover from it with ease, but I personally found it horrendous, I was on morphine for ages, I developed an inflammation of the veins in my legs, had an infection in my scar and felt like I had been sawn in two.

I found recovery a lot more difficult that my previous two vaginal births (dd1 - 3 day labour, gas and air, 6 hours pushing, episiotomy, ventouse, 3rd degree tear. dd2 - induced due to fetal distress, epidural, ver quick pushing stage, 2nd degree tear). I think I'm just a bit shit at giving birth tbh.

LadyoftheManor

Yes, each pregnancy is different.

I had a normal first pregnancy. Spontaneous labour at 40 weeks, horribly painful, then emergency section for foetal distress due to sepsis and 7 litre PPH.

Recovering post section was bloody painful.

The whole experience was absolutely terrifying.

Next time might be entirely different. But I am not going to just wait and see if "the same issues - i.e. lifethreatening sepsis and bleed - crop up". I'm not even pregnant and already I'm scared of giving birth again. So I will have any future babies whatever way makes me feel safest. And unless an obstetrician tells me that is vaginal birth and gives me some very convicing reasons, that will be caesarian section - EVEN IF they told me that VBAC and ELCS posed equal risks.

Two more points.

My reading of the evidence is that VBAC is probably safer for mother but carries marginally higher neonatal mortality. Because of this I would always have wanted a ELCS if I'd had a section for first delivery regardless of the reason.

No-one on here has mentioned having a section - either second time or first time - "just because". They may have physical medical reasons, or they may have psychological reasons. Psychological issues are genuine - if caesarian section is the best option overall for a woman then I firmly believe they should have that option.

Right, I'm off to have a cup of tea and calm down now.