To Think A Teacher Should Be Able To Control a 4 Year Old?

[midori1999]

Maybe control is not quite the right word, but...

My friend's DS is 4. He is also extremely clever. My friend finds him a little difficult at home, but nothing exceptional. I've looked after him a bit and he is determined, but nothing outrageous.

Today he was sent home 'on report' with a letter from his teacher asking my friend to give him a 2 minute time out when he got home and also to replace a rubber he damaged during school time. Last week my friend was asked to go in to the school to give her son a time out for behaviour the previous day as the teacher had been unable to give him a time out at the time of the behaviour. From what I can gather there have been a few other letter home about behaviour.

Is this really normal procedure in schools now or is this an unusual way of dealing with things?

AIBU to think a teacher should easily be able to 'outsmart' a 4 year old and get him to behave?

Exactly and rightly.

I agree strongly, based on 20 years at the chalkface and having brought up three children, that many children of all ages behave very differently in different contexts; those who are properly disciplined at home are often tempted to join in with silly behaviour at school, even including direct rudeness to teachers, as this carries a novelty value to them. In contrast, those who suffer from the scourge of free-range parenting in their homes, respond exceptionally well to calm classrooms, authorative & reasonable teachers & clear boundaries, including sanctions. The former group, disciplined at home, flourish in work-experience, sixth-form & less structured situations, whereas the latter have nothing to fall back on, if their parents have not demonstrated that, generally speaking, a child/young person needs to do as they are asked/told by the adult in loco parentis, whether they like it or not. Taking the harder parenting route of instilling decent behaviour from an early age, and consistently following this through, is the greatest gift a parent can give.

The child should be taught by his parents how to behave at school. If he is being naughty all the time and the teacher has a class of 30 then I think its only reasonable that she makes the parent aware of the behavIour and because it still continues the parent has done nothing to set down rules so then the next step is too bring the mum in to help the child at school and discipline him. Teachers can only do so much. They don't want to be accused of things, now a days everything is so strict with regulations and laws. You probably can't even tell a child no in a stern voice anymore as it might go down as child abuse.

You just said it yourself your friend let's her child get away with things, therefore she is not parenting him . He needs clear boundaries on what is and is not acceptable. She needs to follow it through if he is doing something that is not acceptable not let him get away with things and this is where the problem lies. So don't blame the teacher its your friend. If a child refuses point blank to the teacher and says no, there is only so much she can do, she is not the parent. She also had other children to look after. Funny how people blame teacher instead of looking at themselves.

You just said it yourself your friend let's her child get away with things, therefore she is not parenting him . He needs clear boundaries on what is and is not acceptable. She needs to follow it through if he is doing something that is not acceptable not let him get away with things and this is where the problem lies. So don't blame the teacher its your friend. If a child refuses point blank to the teacher and says no, there is only so much she can do, she is not the parent. She also had other children to look after. Funny how people blame teacher instead of looking at themselves.

I have three children, two of whom behave perfectly well in school and one who finds the whole school set up absolutely terrifying. It's not down to my parenting - it's down to his previous life experiences before being placed with us.

I've always done everything I can to work with the school and to suppor the school. I've taught them what I know, I've provided books and literature to explain to them why he behaves as he does. But all they're interested in is labelling him as 'the naughty one'.

Yes, this child's case may be different. Maybe his mother has been ineffectual at home and hasn't been as strong a parent as she could have or should have been.

But I have to say that my experience has been that school are not always interested in working out what's causing the behaviour - and without working that out where/how do you start to improve that behaviour. Time-outs to be administered hours later by the parent is not practical or sensible. If this teacher failed to get him to do a time out then that was the time that she should have been able to work out an alternative and appropriate method of discipline.

The trouble is now that this little boy has spotted a weakness in his teacher and is quite likely to capitalise on that - in my view her weakness has made the situation worse, not better.

OP - your friend needs to recognise that she has to fight for her child and in order to do this she will have to toughen up and learn to stand up for herself and her child. No-one will do it for her.

No Giddy, I fully accept that - and there's a little boy in my daughter's class who's an absolute nightmare (says she with quite possibly the most difficult child in the school!) and I have to say I find his behaviour difficult to tolerate. Even more so I find his Early Years specialist's mother's behaviour even more difficult to tolerate as she does allow him to run riot. But being friendly with the teachers in school seems to help! Not that I'm cynical you understand.

But OP's friend does need to toughen up - whether it's down to her ineffectual parenting or some underlying issue she is going to have to work with school co-operatively or she's going to have even more of this difficult confrontations with the teacher.

The teacher was wrong in this instance but mum cannot simply abdicate responsibility and expect someone else to deal with the behaviour. School/mum have to have a workable relationship whereby the talk to each other.

Please can a lot of you stop assuming that if a child is disruptive in school, that means they must have received no boundaries or discipline at home. Ds1 can be very disruptive in school. Ds2 is not so much disruptive, as happy to do his own thing, but needs full adult support to guide him to other activities or curriculum related activities. Both are told no, given clear, firm boundaries when they are with myself or DH, given consequences to negative behaviour and of course praise for their good behaviour. Now, my lads both have a reason for how they can behave in school and it has nothing to do with a lack of discipline at home.
As for this situation, I think that the teacher and parent need to arrange a meeting to discuss strategies and to try and work together. The parent has to accept that the teacher has more children to deal with as well as her son and the teacher needs to accept that a two minute time out given hours after the behaviour, is not appropriate.

LeQueen, my friend is a qualified (and working as) nursery nurse, so used to dealing with small children, some who's behaviour can get out of control and some who have additional needs. She is good at her job and well liked by the children and parents she works with. Yes, occasionally at home no doesn't always mean no, but her older DC (5 and 8) do not behave like this.

I'm not, of course, saying she is completely faultless, she knows herself she is not, and cannot be, but that the teacher could find more effective ways of dealing with the child's behaviour. I also think asking the parent to speak to or deal with their child at home is fine, but defining how exactly they should discipline the child is not. I know myself that the child is unlikely to be very bothered about having a time out at the time it is given, let alone with being threatened with or being given one much after the event.

The teacher should not ask your friend to punish the child at home for behaviour at school. It will not work. That isn't to say your friend can't support the teacher but it the behaviour has to be dealt with at the time, especially with a 4 yo.

We had problems with our eldest son from 2 weeks into reception class. We worked with the school as much as possible but by the time I was being taken into the class at the end of each day, being read a list of "crimes" and then being expected to punish ds, we knew it was time to act.

If a 4 yo kicks a chair over at 9.15am, Mummy telling him off at 3.15 is not going to work. Nor is missing family days out, birthday parties and a whole host of similar punishments.

As soon as ds was moved to another school with a proper discipline structure set up, his behaviour started to improve. He is now in yr3 (and another school due to a house move) and has not had an "incident" since October.