... to question the split of childcare cost with XP ?

[Gster]

Should start of by saying I'm a guy. Not that I think it makes any difference here.

Split with XP recently, still trying to sort out access times and money amicably.

Although I currently give her £630pm + cost of shoes, half of DDs holiday costs, family meals out etc, I'm going to suggest I reduce it to the CSA calculation ( £350 ) and split any other DD costs 50:50 including nursery costs from September.

However, my XP, who is pretty well sorted financially with no mortgage and a hundred grand in the bank, want's me to split the childcare costs for when she's working.

She has a mothers dream job in media. Gets around £200ph and works anywhere betweene 2 - 10 hours a week. But if she has a one hour job for an hour in the morning she'll get childcare ( if granny can't do it ) in for the morning to cover.

She'd like me to pay 50% of this. Am I being unreasonable to think I should offer less than 50% of this ? She keeps telling me she's doing me a favour by looking after DD in the week and thus saving full time nursery costs.

... That was typed on an iphone , sorry its abit disjointed

But Gster, if you had her 50:50 you wouldn't need to make any maintenance payment at all, surely? Just pay for her while she's with you, including childcare costs, and split the cost of things like clothes and shoes and toys which don't need to be bought twice.

I would add that if you are serious about shared care you are going to have to come up with a very convincing plan- saying you can't have her because your work is not flexible enough is exactly what most separated RPs are up against. They have to fit in a job around having the children 12 days a fortnight. That is what women even in a relationship do every single day- juggling home and work. So many men don't seem to understand that- they assume that childcare just happens. It happens because someone, usually the mother, makes it happen, bends over backwards often at the expense of her career, to make it happen. To be honest if you don't really understand that I can see why your ex is iffy about allowing you shared care.

At least at the moment your daughter is with a parent for the majority of her week. Most children are not so fortunate.

Am shocked by how many parents seem to think that it is OK to pay the minimum CSA payments, and that childcare costs are the responsibility of the RP.

Like Xenia, I earn far more than ex-DP. We share care but to ensure my DS has a reasonable standard of living in both houses, and in recognition that ex-DH effectively does much of the day care (that I would otherwise pay a nanny for) I also pay ex-DH a substantial allowance too. Essentially as much as I can afford yet still meet my bill payments each month. Wouldn't cross my mind to pay the minimum and leave him struggling - even though he was the one that left, he is and always will be DH's father.

That all sounds very sensible twofalls. Trust the Scandinavians to get it right. I suppose the parents have to live in the same town for it to work properly though.

Sorry- twopeople

I'll go along with the Scandinavians.

Cuts out the conflicts, and means one person isn't reliant on another.

Good plan and as for men sayign I couldn't do 50/50 because I work huge numbers of single mothers who have their children 365 days a year as I do work and not just 10 - 3 jobs but business trips abroad and we have no choice but to find and hire and pay for what can be very complicated and expensive childcare. There's no reason because someone has a penis he can't arrange childcare and pay for it.

Fully in agreement - if a child needs care in the week it is the responsibility of both parents to arrange and cover for it. Anything else is unfair.

Why don't you just get a nanny, split the costs 50:50 with your XP and have your nanny and your DD move from one house to the other according to whatever schedule you have set up? It will make all your lives a lot easier.

Duchesse

every case is different. in mine there are problems with distance that mean 50:50 isn't workable at least right now. But that isn't what this thread is about.

My XP recently told me that if I take a day off work to look after DD on one of her work days, and thus reduce childcare costs, then that counts as one of my access days in the week. So if for example we agree that I see DD every Thursday afternoon / night, if I then look after DD on a Tuesday for an afternoon / day, I shouldn't then expect to see DD on the pre-arranged Thursday.

So if I make an effort to contribute to childcare in terms of time, which I'm happy to do as an when I can, save us both money, I should expect it to come out of any pre-arranged time with DD.

My EP does work hard in looking after our DD, to arrange childcare, but this doesn't seem fair to me. Convince me otherwise.

Gster - you sound like a fair, conscientious parent. Is there any valid reason why youe exp doesn't wan you looking after your dd more than you already do?

There are a huge load of silly women around using chidlren are weapons. Why is it a competition as to how much time children have with a parent? Surely most of us resident full time workingm others would jump at the chance of more help (or any help in my case as I get zero help and zeron money from him and he's living in a mortgage free house bought with my/our money etc).

I think people and children need certainty however and if there is any contention over children it is best if a plan can be set in stone 6 months in advance and then be immovable in diaries. What seems to hurt most resident and non resident parents is father saying I will have them then and then not turning up again and again and again or being late so your own plans are thrown awry (not mine because I can assume I have the chidlren 365 days a year and plan accordingly, lucky me) or where there is a secure routine where the child is happy but suddenly changes are made which throws a lot of things out.

Gster's wife is a total idiot. It's the Mrs Doubtfire situation all over again - where the father dresses as a woman and is hired to be nanny to his own children. Does depend on the childcare though. Those of us with a lot of children who have had daily nannies know that when you have the next baby you can't just say to the nanny disappear for 3 months and I won't pay you. If a child has a regular nursery place or childcare you cannot put that place in jeopardy by suddenly saying okay this week it won't be there and you will lose that fee because the father will be having it. It doesn't work like that.

Mothers who want to ration contact are very very common and totally weird in my view. If a child loves a parent why would you want it not to spend time with the parent (unless that causes major problems with the person who is usualyl paid to have it on that day which it might do - that is certainly worth going into or if the father promises all kindso f help, you cancel the childcare and then he doesn't turn up as thousands don't sadly and you lose your job because you had to take a day off work as an emergency as he'd let you down for the 1000th time).

Also if the other parent is really bad for the children which very very few are despite what plenty of mothers say (but some do take drugs, hurt the child etc) then you can see why some parents might want to ration contact times,

DropDeadFred

No, I'm a normal guy. There are honestly no issues of abuse, neglect, criminal records or anything at all like that.

I really don't understand why my XP is being so difficult in this respect.

Xenia

yes, I think I'm experiencing the reverse to the unreliable dad not turning up.

In the last three weeks I've had to turn up later than arranged on the weekends as XP , has a friend over, is visiting her mother, etc. I didn't see DD all last week as XP was working hard, which in turn meant come the w/e she wanted more 'leisure time' time with DD.

It's not a massive problem, I'm trying not to make it into one, there are swings and roundabouts. Until I find a suitable home ( found one now ) , visits are at hers and I truely appreciate her letting me into her home.

But she is the gate keeper to DD and I think she enjoys the control it gives her ( which is likely the core reason )

It's been a month since we split and she thinks I'm trying to steam roll her into a decision about access. Whilst I wait for her to tell me her views on access I see less and less of my DD.

It's breaking my heart. :-(

What a shame that she's denying your DD from spending time with you. That's so wrong :(

Yes, control and one reason people have found why some men choose to have no contact after divorce (there are many reason but this is one) is they (some) want the children all the time or not at all because they cannot cope with having to compromise (or it hurts them too much to realise what they lost).

One reason our contact has worked is in about 7 years we have never spoken or changed it. In fact amazingly even before divorce we never had one conversation about it but we are both utterly reliable so just just arrives, rings the bell and takes them for 2 hours and we virtually never vary it. If you don't get on never changing things and not having to talk probably makes it easier although of course it's totally weird and on my side it doesn't have to be like that.

As soon as people go near courts they have lost because few courts jail mothers who deny contact so the more adversarial you make it the less contact you get. It's very difficult for people, usualyl men although some women are denied contact. I think the age of the child has a big impact too. Once they get older they decide with whom they live. Once they have internet access at school, iphones, skype it's pretty hard to keep them out of contact with a parent they love.

I suppose like most things in life if we think about what the other person gets out of things and try to ensure they get some kind of reward of some kind then psychologically it might result in getting what you want rather than people going to lawyers and then shutting off all contact. Until we start jailing mothers for changing access it won't work and ditto fathers who don't turn you. in the latter situation you could have a 3 strikes and you're out rul - be late 3 weekendsd in a row and you lose contact for another 3 but as the welfare of the child always comes first that give almost total power to the resident parent particularyl with malleable children . I have never had a malleable child. If I say X they want Y but apparently the UK is full of chidlren who if they say your father is awful the child is then alienated. Pretty weak children.

Xenia - I'm not sure children are weak. I think in a lot of families (although certainly not in mine) children are much more strongly attached to one parent/home than the other (for all sorts of reasons it would take another thread to explore). Hence many children prefer to reside with one parent, don't really care whether they see the non-resident parent etc.

50/50 won't work if you live an hour away - your dd will need to have a base for school when she's older.

how would things work if you were RP? presumably, you wouldn't need to work such long hours & your ex would pay you some money. would she also contribute to childcare? i know it's v unlikely this would happen, as your dd is currently cared for by her, so a court wouldn't change that. however 'flipping' the scenario (in theory, to help discussion) might make you both look at what seems fair.

i'm sorry, but if she's not prepared to discuss these things & look at other possibilities, it sounds like the split won't stay amicable.

Bs, depends on the child. Most children see things in black and white rather than shades of grey so if their life is rent asunder and daddy left to shack up with a pretty girl they are likely to blame daddy. If mummy has moved out to live with her lover they aren't likely to feel very happy towards her either and if daddy regularly beat them all up even if that were a result of mummy's hidden alcoholism they would tend to place the blame there I suppose but even so far too many seem pathetic little weak things who believe what one parent says.

People can try to mvoe near an ex even if that isn't hugely desirable for them for other reasons if it then means they have easier contact.

I'm not nearly as despondent as you about children's analytical skills and I think most children have mixed feelings, just as most adults do, with varying degrees of ability to actually sort and prioritise those feelings.

I'd reduce the £630 down to £350. £630 is a huge amount of money for one child. I'd discuss the childcare costs but to be honest I wouldn't go 50:50. I'd negotiate a 30:70 split, with you paying 30%. She gets to choose when she wants to works etc I don't think you need to pamper her by doing the 50:50 split. If her work hours were stable and therefore the childcare costs defined (e.g. DD will be in nursery three full days a week every week) then a 50:50 maybe fair.

I think she is being very money grabbing. (The more you give the less she appreciates or just expects). You need to stand up for yourself. Your XP doesn't sound like she is being amicable to me!