regarding young children and coffee shops..

[tholeon]

I have always thought that is was acceptable to bring food in for babies and toddlers to coffee shops and family friendly restaurants, as long as the adult in charge buys theirs. I have a 20 month old and when he was smaller I often bought baby food out with us, now he is a bit bigger we sometimes order from the kiddie menu, but at other times he just has some of mine, and we usually bring in our own stuff too (a banana or whatever...) to kick things off for him as, like most toddlers, he is not good at waiting. Also like most toddlers, some of what he eats generally ends up on the floor.

This lunchtime I've just walked into a coffee shop I hadn't been to before to overhear a loud conversation between the owner and a customer about how annoying the local mums were coming in, ordering too little, staying too long, bringing their own food for the children, and making a mess. They were saying that the mums should feed the children at home before coming out... It looked like a normal type of coffee shop, high chairs available, easy wipe surfaces, not an expensive adult only quiet type joint. Anyhow, we took ourselves off and went elsewhere. What do you all think?

I think you should buy food from the cafe.

Even when dd was a baby I remember buying her a jar of baby food in Woolworths of all places when I went in for a coffee.

Never really thought about the time scale side of things but at the end of the day they are not a playgroup.

I think of babycinos as being the price of a toddler in a cafe. We don't go there for lunch, just morning tea, and I'm not buying her a big $5 slice of cake. So she gets a babycino and a snack from my bag, I get a coffee, it's all good.

Mind you, she's only got the patience for a half hour, anyway.

This lunchtime I've just walked into a coffee shop I hadn't been to before to overhear a loud conversation between the owner and a customer about how annoying the local mums were coming in, ordering too little, staying too long, bringing their own food for the children, and making a mess. They were saying that the mums should feed the children at home before coming out... It looked like a normal type of coffee shop, high chairs available, easy wipe surfaces, not an expensive adult only quiet type joint. Anyhow, we took ourselves off and went elsewhere. What do you all think?

CBA to read 4 pages of usual drivel - it's a business, not a drop in centre for bored housewives to amuse their children on the cheap

*housewife; an outdated term as 57% of you dont have a man that will marry you and legitimise your children.

Oh, I do like it when someone shows their true colours this early in the game and I can just add them to my mental 'ignore' list.

erm most coffee shops do milkshakes and juice and most kids over one can drink this? also muffins etc, i eat what i want and order something for the kids to have, i want my fiid and what i like! not what they want!

[yawn]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation it was wanky and rude of the owner to have a conversation like that with a third party, clearly designed for your hearing. If he / she had something to say - have the balls to say it to you directly.

If groups of mums are routinely commandeering all the seats in a coffee shop and passing a single cappuchino around with multiple straws for 3 hours I can see the problem, but I suspect that the coffee shop wasn't full to bursting? In which case...the problem is?

MadamD That's what I see a lot of in my coffee town. Just a bunch of hippy's/hipster's ordering their chai tea for $1.80 and sitting for 2 hours.

Honestly I can't imagine trying to sit for longer than 30 minutes with my toddler DD in a cafe. I wouldn't stay longer than it takes me to drink my latte. I always have fruit, a drink box, granola bar or O's as I find most cafe's charge $3+ for a muffin that doesn't look to appetizing or offer anything that I myself would likely eat in terms of baked goods. I have a friend with a great coffee shop and for little one like DD, when you order an apple juice, its in a double espresso cup, organic and free. At 2, they don't drink that much really. He also offers small, healthy cookies and baked goods for very good prices. This is why people go there. The selection is not about bigger is better. I have to say, it sort of bugs me to see anyone overstaying their welcome at a cafe/restauant unless you order something more... I've worked for 20 years in the food industry... and parents with children over-running the place for 2 hours with only a $2 coffee fits is only one group of individuals that abuse it.

I do agree that it is a bit passive-aggressive to speak the way the owner did. You should and can ask nicely for people to move on.

well i don't think it was directed at me actually - I hadn't been there before and hadn't sat down yet, just walked in on the conversation and got put off by it. It was empty at the time bar the one customer the owner was having the conversation with - and it was lunchtime! I think a sensible compromise in general would be to have a kiddie menu with smaller portions and cheaper prices as many coffee shops I go to more regularly do. At those I now normally buy something for DS from that menu. But he still sometimes has raisins or similar first as he is not good at waiting and it is a good occupation for him. And I don't want to buy him the unhealthy crisps instead. We certainly don't spend hours in coffee shops ever - he's not good at sitting down for long at the best of times!

Regarding how long it is acceptable to stay at the table, I think it depends on how busy the cafe is.
Mid-morning and half full? Or lunch-time and packed? Unless you are spending a lot of money, I dont think it is fair to stay too long when cafe is full and people waiting on tables to free up. But if cafe not full, I don't see why not.. Afterall, isn't a half full/at least somewhat occupied cafe more attractive to other customers than an empty one??

I have been into a coffee shop, bought a coffee and sat and read my college books for an hour, while slowly sipping my rapidly cooling drink. OK, I didn't make a mess like some children might, but I did hog a table for an hour and I know other people who will spend much longer with their laptop, using the free wifi. (I might have thought about leaving, or ordering something else if it had got very busy and people were looking for tables.)

I can see the point that small cafes full of pushchairs, non eating children and food all over the floor might get fed up, but often they are not taking up any more time and tables than a single adult.

I agree people shouldn't go into a cafe and not buy the dc lunch too if you are going to buy one for yourself and bring a lunch box for your dc. It is a business after all.

The owner seemed an ass to me.

I think it was the complaints about children making a mess that put me off most - because DS obviously would get some stuff on the floor. tbh I don't think you should provide highchairs if you can't cope with food ending up on the floor. I do try to pick the more obvious bits up out of politeness but sometimes they need to follow up with a dustpan and brush - I don't think I can be expected to bring my own!

I hadn't had a chance to look at the menu yet, but had we stayed I would probably have bought a sandwich for us both, and a drink for me. I'd have asked for tap water for him (don't think that's unreasonable is it? - he normally drinks wster for lunch and I never see the point of expensive eco unfriendly bottled stuff..) He would also have eaten his home bought banana while waiting for his sandwich. Some of it would have ended up on the floor. I wanted to stop because we were hungry - we were by ourselves - it wasn't so that I could have a long chat with a mate! As it was I thought the owner sounded too grumpy, we stayed hungry, and they had a near-empty lunchtime cafe.

There are a couple of cafes where I live where the rule is that you have to order food between 11.30am and 2/2.30pm, which seems fair to me. What their stance is on parents bringing their own food for children I don't know, I've never seen it happen.

I do think that once children are above a certain age that food should be purchased for them, allergies/intolerances excepted of course. My dd has always been a fussy eater and we always managed to find something.

In terms of owner complaining about the mess, you don't know if:

1. He is just a grumpy sod
2. He had had a family in where the children were horrendous e.g. throwing food around, etc and the parents made no attempt to stop the children doing this.

What's a chai latte?
What's a babycino?
You see this thread is the whole reason why I don't go to coffee shops with young children if I can possibly help it!
In my view it's OK to bring your own baby food/special dietary requirements food but not if there is something on the menu that your kids can eat. You really should buy something for everybody above the age of 1, but then you can stay as long as you like. Coffee shop owners can't impose a rule eg if you spend less than £5, you have to go within 30 mins. That's not good customer service and it's a parciularly British attitude which you don't get in other countries.
As for making a mess, yes I think you should make all reasonable efforts to clear up but obviously they will still need to sweep up, wipe tables etc. It's all about good manners, both customers and staff.
On the whole I prefer picnics - much simpler and cheaper, when it's not raining of course!

Chai latte is chai tea with steamed milk. Never heard of a babycino before but likely hot chocolate with steamed milk.. just a guess.

When you're paying over a fiver for coffee & a cake it seems unfair to bitch if you bung your 20mo a banana. Healthy snacks should be ok.

Still I'd be amazed if someone had the nerve to bring in drinks for children let alone anything like crisps, biscuits, sarnies. The rule in my head is if the shop sells it you can't bring your own.

just been for lunch in the cafe in esporta. bought lunch for two and fed dd her packed lunch. no one batted and eyelid. its half term - lots of familes in there doing the same. i think if you're a family friendly cafe you have to get over it or start moving people on - who wont come back will they?

I think that it is ok to be buying toddlers and older stuff at the cafe if they DO offer sufficient items because it teaches them about socializing and going to cafe's and restaurants and how to behave... sorry this is coming out a bit scattered... I have a cold and am pregnant with a toddler. No brain right now.