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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

regarding young children and coffee shops..

106 replies

tholeon · 23/02/2011 13:23

I have always thought that is was acceptable to bring food in for babies and toddlers to coffee shops and family friendly restaurants, as long as the adult in charge buys theirs. I have a 20 month old and when he was smaller I often bought baby food out with us, now he is a bit bigger we sometimes order from the kiddie menu, but at other times he just has some of mine, and we usually bring in our own stuff too (a banana or whatever...) to kick things off for him as, like most toddlers, he is not good at waiting. Also like most toddlers, some of what he eats generally ends up on the floor.

This lunchtime I've just walked into a coffee shop I hadn't been to before to overhear a loud conversation between the owner and a customer about how annoying the local mums were coming in, ordering too little, staying too long, bringing their own food for the children, and making a mess. They were saying that the mums should feed the children at home before coming out... It looked like a normal type of coffee shop, high chairs available, easy wipe surfaces, not an expensive adult only quiet type joint. Anyhow, we took ourselves off and went elsewhere. What do you all think?

OP posts:
IcingOnTheCake · 23/02/2011 15:25

silverfrog i think if you went to the person serving and explained that your dc has allergies they would understnad and let you bring your own food.

It's the ones who just come in with lunchboxes for their dc that annoys cafe owners because you are basically taking money out of their pockets when you bring in your own food for your (allergy free) dc.

silverfrog · 23/02/2011 15:30

yes, Icing, most places do understand.

It was just the rash of posts saying "oh, but you'll send the cafe broke"

my situation is complicated, as dd1 has ASD, so is a very picky eater. there was a time where she would not, for example, eat a banana that had been bought in a cafe, but would insist on one brought from home.

things like that are hard to explain.

I have to sa, I come down firmly on the side of "if you are buying something, then having food for your children is not the end of the world"

no one knows whether the families they see with lunchboxes for children are allergy families or not.

HecateQueenOfWitches · 23/02/2011 15:33

My two also have autism, and are gluten intolerant.

I ask if they have anything gluten free, if they don't then I order for me and pull something out of my bag for the kids.

I find that if you have asked them and they are unable to provide something, then they don't have a problem with you providing something.

This is totally different from a group of people with lots of kids parking themselves for an entire morning and spending a tenner between them.

Ooid · 23/02/2011 15:37

The thing is you get people who take it to extremes. Yes it's not an awful crime to bring in your own pot of food for a baby but the next person will be the one who has one cup of tea, then lays out their own spread for their three under-fives (at least two of whom should be able to go to a cafe and eat normal food anyway) and stays for two hours taking up space that four paying customers could use.

busymummy3 · 23/02/2011 15:37

but also there is nothing worse than calling in somewhere and you cannot get a seat and you see a few tables taken up with parents(mums)and all their children with about one coffee between them with no intention of going anywhere fast!!!

silverfrog · 23/02/2011 15:38

oh, Hec, totally agree tha tif half the toddler group turns up, orders a coffee each, and takes up most of the shop for a couple fo hours then that is not on.

But I am bemused as to the hard and fast rules that posters seem to apply - the "oh, if over 3 weeks old, then absolutely unacceptable ot even think about giving htem anythign but the fillet steak" posters.

and it just occurred to me that I must have been judged a million times for what, to me, is a perfectly normal everyday occurrence. Confused

hey ho.

each to their own

IcingOnTheCake · 23/02/2011 15:45

"no one knows whether the families they see with lunchboxes for children are allergy families or not."

That is why it is up to the parent involved to go and tell a member of staff that their dc have allergies. It should never be down to a case of staff guessing who has and who hasn't got allergies.

And no one is saying "babies over 3 months should eat nothing but fillet steak." They are just saying that the majority of kids that are past weaning stage should be bought a lunch in the cafe rather then bringing a lunch box for siad child. It is not unreasonable to ask this.

Ooid · 23/02/2011 15:45

In fact a friend of mine runs a shop with a cafe bit and a woman came in with a baby and asked for space to sit and breastfeed. It was really cold outside and there's nothing else around, babies need feeding so she said yes.
The woman wasn't buying but for the sake of a 15-min feed it wasn't a problem.
Then the woman's extended family came in 5 minutes later, three more adults and three children, and two of them were big kids who she said probably had issues because they started pushing furniture around and taking stuff off the shelves.
And at no point did any of them think they were taking a fucking libertay. She did say something eventually about the kids' behaviour and she got very pert comments back - but look those people were just using her commercial space for their own comfort by that point - what is she supposed to do? It isn't up to her to provide special facilities for people to hang out in the cold - a small kindness is one thing but taking business from her is another.
People are really awful sometimes, you have to sadly have rules for the lowest common denominator.

IcingOnTheCake · 23/02/2011 15:50

I meet a friend of mine at a small family run soft play and always buy my dc lunch when we go because i know that every little bit helps when your running a small business.

shewasashowgirl · 23/02/2011 15:50

Icing

The cakes are probably that expensive to subsidise the amount of mums groups not buying anything Wink

HalfPastWine · 23/02/2011 15:54

Sometimes the menu itself speaks volumes about the 'type' of customers it wants to attract. If they don't sell food for small children you get the hint they don't kids in there. If they did surely they'd put on a small selection of toddler friendly snacks.

TheGuvnor · 23/02/2011 15:55

Have only skimmed this so apologies if this is a repeat...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the bambinoccino (or similar) that some chains sell is free(presumably with adult drink)? If so, it suggests that these coffee shops are 'happy' to attract the parents and let the children 'freeload'. I accept that this is only certain (large) chains, no doubt part of their carefully thought out strategy, and not indicative of all coffee shops.

IcingOnTheCake · 23/02/2011 15:56

I think i am so Shock about it is because i know how much they buy those cakes for and the mark up is insane!

Yes i would love to think the cakes are so expensive was because they have to make the money up from what they loose from parents rather then them just making up huge profits for themselvesGrin

Ooid · 23/02/2011 15:57

There is absolutely no way that those places would offer kids a freebie just to sit there and take up space.
They will have done research into exactly how much profit they make off the back of a free espresso-cupful of frothed milk. And it will be enough to make it worth their while. Guaranteed.

shewasashowgirl · 23/02/2011 15:59

Those babyccinos aren't free!

Ooid · 23/02/2011 16:01

And places like Pizza Express are looking long-term at making the next generation into customers too.
(It worked with our family Blush)

ariane5 · 23/02/2011 16:02

I always take my own food for ds and dd2 if i go to a cafe (which is rare as they have really bad allergies and come up in hives just by sitting in there/touching the table etc).On the few occasions ive done this ive always asked if it was ok and the people working there couldnt have been nicer about it.

TheGuvnor · 23/02/2011 16:03

shewas oh sorry. I've only ordered one once and had a feeling I hadn't paid for it (could just be the latent stealing again Wink ). Surprising I haven't ordered more really, considering I thought they were free. Apologies for misinformation

shewasashowgirl · 23/02/2011 16:12

Pizza express aren't a coffee shop though

greentig3r · 23/02/2011 16:12

With regard to buying milk for a 20 month old, in Scotland the Breastfeeding Act 2005 applies to breastfeeding women as well as anyone feeding milk to toddlers in licensed premises where children are already allowed to enter.

shewasashowgirl · 23/02/2011 16:14

I ordered a babyccino at a famous coffee shop and when I realised they wanted 90p for a tea spoon of milk with air I promptly return the said "babyccino" and asked for a refund. Daylight robbery, I had bought quite a few other items too but never been back to that coffee shop again!

sungirltan · 23/02/2011 20:59

well since the average spend per adult when we go to cafes is £9 i suppose we can stay and feed the kids their lunches. there are usually 6 adults and we stay about an hour. we go every week at the same time. our dc are 16 months. sometimes i order dd a meal, sometimes she shares with me but i'm dammed if i'm always ordering a whole meal which she is unlikely to finish every time on principle.

on a side note we had a huge new years day lunch at one of the Tanners brothers restaurant with all the babies. no one in the wanky restuarant raised an eyebrow at any lunch boxes and all the baby meals we ordered were free :-)

Susiewho · 23/02/2011 21:04

When they start selling proper vegan nosh, I'll be able to buy their food, rather than bringing from home for DD! :)

moomaa · 23/02/2011 21:26

At Centre Parcs you get free baby food. It is the age 4 months proper smooth puree stuff and I was AMAZED at the amount of people who used it for toddlers who were up to about 2. I thought that was out of order for all kinds of reasons. Gave us something to judge about while we ate though!!

I am on the side who think 20 months is too old for this. I think up to about 12 months is ok. Before that they eat such small amounts they can just share or have a banana. 99% of places are going to do toast, a crossiant, a cheese toastie or similiar that is suitable. Even a glass of milk (I have yet to go somewhere that won't do a glass of milk on request). Even if it's not all eaten I see it as payment for the space used up and the mess made. If I can't afford that I don't go in.

MadameDefarge · 23/02/2011 22:47

The mark up you talk about is to cover overheads, staff costs, tax, VAT...

The poster who thought it was fine to spend two hours in a cafe is a loon. Yes you are depriving them of trade. Catering is one of the lowest margin businesses around, so if you think mark ups are outrageous, I suggest you think long and hard about what it costs to provide you with a warm safe environment, Its not about base cost, which should by rule of thumb be 25% of your retail cost, excluding VAT. If you saw the spreadsheets I struggle over to work out my price point you would be amazed.

I own a cafe. we are very very baby, toddler and child friendly, we coo over the babies, we heat bottles, we don't give a shit if the mums stay for an hour and feed their kids carrot sticks brought from home. Just please don't do it at lunch time. Or in the evening with six kids eating a toddler portion of pasta, staying two hours playing with the toys I provide for them. Be considerate.

I refuse to have wifi because I do not want all the hipsters buying one coffee and staying all morning.

Buggies are a big issue. As are parents who think its fine to block exits with them, or put the high chairs provided in obviously unsafe places.

I love the kids. Its the parents who test me. Where do people get the idea one coffee buys you three spaces for two hours?

Oh, and please don't clear up after yourselves, its no help, and we then can't see where stuff has been spilt or smeared.

Rant over.