regarding young children and coffee shops..

[tholeon]

I have always thought that is was acceptable to bring food in for babies and toddlers to coffee shops and family friendly restaurants, as long as the adult in charge buys theirs. I have a 20 month old and when he was smaller I often bought baby food out with us, now he is a bit bigger we sometimes order from the kiddie menu, but at other times he just has some of mine, and we usually bring in our own stuff too (a banana or whatever...) to kick things off for him as, like most toddlers, he is not good at waiting. Also like most toddlers, some of what he eats generally ends up on the floor.

This lunchtime I've just walked into a coffee shop I hadn't been to before to overhear a loud conversation between the owner and a customer about how annoying the local mums were coming in, ordering too little, staying too long, bringing their own food for the children, and making a mess. They were saying that the mums should feed the children at home before coming out... It looked like a normal type of coffee shop, high chairs available, easy wipe surfaces, not an expensive adult only quiet type joint. Anyhow, we took ourselves off and went elsewhere. What do you all think?

If you're going to fill his belly up with a banana he's not going to eat much after that anyway surely? Would it help to take him in earlier so he can wait for his food to arrive while you distract him a bit?

interesting - the cafes I frequent have a well-practised routine to clear up the floor after the little buggers darlings who eat there, all part of the service, and I'm sure why most of us keep going - so it works for the cafe too.

I don't feel guilty about giving DC a drink from a beaker or a bicuit or something, but try and have an internal balance about buying her something every/other visit. Quite often just have a meal myself that she picks at tho, and have never had anything other than politeness and friendliness from staff.

these cafes pride themselves on the family-friendliness tho so maybe look out for those in future - usually the ones with big boxes of toys available and long-suffering staff with brooms and mops!

See, I would spend 2 hours (fat chance, but you know) reading in Waterstones because I used to work there and know that they don't mind as long as:

a) you don't break the spine
b) preferably put the book back on the shelf in the right place, or at least on the right floor
c) don't take the book into the coffee shop, spill coffee on it, smear jam on it and then leave it there
d) don't let your toddler pull out all the picture books, use them as a fun slide, cover them in snot and then leave them all over the floor

Sitting reading a book for 2 hours? Not A Problem.

i think if a cafe has high chairs and doesn't sell a appropriate toddler food they need to get over themselve

But as it's a parent's responsibility to feed their child a decent lunch, wouldn't the parent frequent somewhere that sells decent food for thier child to eat?

My point about Waterstones was that if every parent brought the family there to read books for free, they wouldn't make a profit. Same as coffee shops, you do actually have to spend in them in order to keep them open.

I don't see the difference between me ordering a coffee and a cake and sharing it with my 19mo, or ordering a coffee and a cake and providing food for my 19mo...? Apart from the difference to my waist line that is.

It's different if you're going in and ordering a glass of tap water, and then setting up for the afternoon with a picnic for your child. But generally speaking, I don't think there is an issue.

It's different if it's somewhere to go for a meal, then I would always order something for DD. But in a coffee shop, when generally all there is to eat is cake or crisps, I'd prefer to stick a banana in my bag instead.

I'd stear well clear of that cafe if I was you.

I have been to plenty of cafes where someone will nurse a single coffee throughout the lunch period whilst tapping away on their laptop.

Either put up a sign saying minimum spend £x and then people will no that you are arsey individuals not to be bothered with or take the rough with the smooth.

I think 2 would be the cut off point. After that, you should be buying food from the shop. But why on earth not just meet up at times when they don't need to be fed? If I owned a coffee shop, I would tolerate a 2 year old being given carrot sticks and perhaps a sandwich, and be completely understanding about purees and milk, of course!

Does the shop sell bananas, OP? If it does, then YABVU to take your own. Perhaps next time, buy your drinks, and mention that you hope they don't mind that your DCs have their own food. If they do, mention that you can't find anything suitable in the shop, perhaps suggest they sell fruit, carrot sticks, plain bread rolls.

Jah i think lunchtime is prob a bit uncalled for, but plenty of coffee shops, specially chains with big premises, are pretty empty at certain times of day and IMO most owners think that having a group of mums having a coffee each is better than no income at all.

tiny little independent coffee shop probably not the best place for an NCT meeting tho

costa doesn't sell fruit. toddlers can be fussy creatures. they also don't eat entire four quid sandwiches. in large chains like starbucks/costa i don't think it unreasonable to bring in food for them sometimes as long as you buy something for yourself.

I think people coming in and staying ages but only buying one coffee must be an occupational hazard of owning a cafe; I find it hard to believe that mums and toddlers are the only or even the biggest offenders in the table-blocking stakes. More to the point, I'd have thought mothers/kids would be quite a significant source of income for many cafes in the daytime - and not just how the owners might imagine. Our local coffee shop is my first choice for when I'm having coffee with other mums/kids, but also when I'm on my own. If they were unfriendly/unwelcoming, they'd lose their 'mum' business but also the same women coming in during dc-free time. It's never wise for a business to alienate a whole section of its clientele!

As for the food question, as my DD is allergic to dairy, I am brazen in bringing in my own food to places (activate I'd love to have the option you suggest!), but on the whole I'd tend to think bringing some of your own food you know your toddler will eat is reasonable if you are buying coffee and cakes/lunch for grown-ups.

Also to add living outside the UK I can still take my children (under 6) to a four or five star hotel and have a buffet lunch or dinner for free provided that I am also eating.

Frequently in the evening in an al a carte restaurant DH and I will order for ourselves and the children will eat some of our main courses or they will share a main between them.

We have frequently been out and ordered something small for the kids and then be presented with a steady stream of free "extras" meaning that we have far to much food.

No one is ever worried if I only want a starter as a main.

And the end result is those are the places we go back to time and time again.

i stand by what i said. we used to go to a cafe which reserved a big table for us AND made a big space to park the buggies. i t was like a quinny/bugaboo showroom in there but the cafe owner loved us :-) we always ordered a panini/coffee/cake each and fed the dc their packed lunches. only reason we dont go there is anymore is because their vintage lcothes business took off so much they needed the cafe space!

we go to an independent cafe (hue stack of antillops) and a cafe inside a buddhist centre now with the kids. both owners come and coo over the dc. only one mum buys cafe food for her ds. we have never had the slightest issue with the owners.

I don't think table blocking is the problem it is buggy blocking. Over the last 20 years babies buggy's seem to have grown, and when you have only two or three they seem to take up a huge amount of floor space.
Even if you took the little ones out of them they are far to cumbersome with all their "attachments".

I have been in a coffeeshop/cafe in the past and seen customers and staff struggling to get around the parked buggies.....and the kiddies were all eating their own food too!

I don't think buggys have grown over 20 years - I'm thinking back to the huge pram type thing that I recall my sibblings being pushed about in.

The difference is that children are now treated as a part of society rather than mums being expected to keep them at home and away from adults until they are at least 14.

They're a business.

They've got staff to pay, rent to pay, tax to pay, other bills to pay...

Of course it is going to piss them off when you have a group of people, taking up most of the seating for a great deal of the morning and ordering a couple of coffees or something.

They are trying to run a business, make a living, not run a mother & toddler group.

It is extremely unfair to business owners to effectively prevent them from earning a living in this way.

I was in starbucks the other day when a young man came in, sat in one of the arm chairs and took a can of drink and a sandwich out of his back pack and ate/drank it. He was not with anyone and he did not order anything, I think that is cheeky.

I think pushchairs are alot smaller now then 20 years ago tbh.

I think past the baby stage it is unreasonable to go into a cafe and bring your own lunch for the kids. My friend does it when we are out, even though there are signs up saying not to consume your own food, but out comes the lunch box. She is so blatent about it too. Where as i will purchase a lunch for my dc.

If you don't want to pay for your dc to eat out, go to a cafe either in the morning or afternoon and give them lunch at home. That way you could probably get away with just buying them a small cake or something. But to go into a cafe to have your lunch and take a lunchbox for your dc is very unreasonable.

It's about consideration and common sense. There's a big difference between taking a banana and unpacking juice and snacks.
I walked in and straight back out of my local coffee and cake shop the other day because I couldn't get past four large buggies just sitting in front of the tables. It's a small place and the buggy owners should seriously have thought that perhaps it wasn't that suitable before sitting down.
I think most people are considerate though and know when they've outstayed their welcome (2 hours x 2 coffees is not acceptable) but there'll always be the odd one that will treat it as a creche/conference room rather than a shop.

Disneyland banning picnics is unreasonable.

Small cafes making small profits are not.

We still take a sandwich for my 5 year old when we are out. We tend to find that he is hungry at about 12 noon and we don't want to eat until later. He will happily munch on his sandwich until we stop for lunch. We always buy a cake for him at a cafe.

TBH I find that I spend more when I'm with kids / group of mums than when I'm on my own. I get immersed in the paper/my book and one coffee lasts for ages! When I'm out with other mums someone is always popping up to buy something else.

We go to our local Costa. They are lovely there. The posh independent coffee shop across the road is rubbish as they are so snooty and won't let you just order coffee at certain times or let you take kids in at certain times. Even if there is no-one in there. I don't go there on my own now. Always Costa!

In a coffee shop i worked at years ago they used to have a £3.00 minimum spend per customer between 12 and 2pm. I think there were only around 10 tables in there so i guess they didn't want someone hogging a whole table with one coffee when someone who was buying drink and food could be sat there.

what are people with allergies/with children with allergies to do?

I can see the points that everyone is raising re: small business, not depriving them of profit etc.

so should I just stick to big chains? ( at being forced to eat in Starbucks or similar)

even now, and dd1 is way better with the amount of foods she can tolerate etc, I still take fruit, drinks, and possibly a sandwich (depending on where we are) into a cafe/restaurant. I have to.

I htink as someone pointed out earlier in the htread, this is where blanket policies do not work, and a sliding scale of reasonable behaviour is needed.

and I do wish that most places would serve (or at least not look at oyu in horror when asked for a slight variation on the menu) food that is free form the major allergens.

So are some of the people on this thread the ones who get robbed buy cake at costa/starbucks then? I am always at the price they charge for cake and biscuits and cannot believe people actually pay it!