to interact socially with a racist?

[MitchiestInge]

Would you be friends with someone who was once a member of the national front?

I agree with LDNmummy. Stereotypes dehumanise and objectify human beings. The personal views of an individual cannot be divorced from the historical context.

kirk1 I see where you are coming from but I disagree. Yes religion has been used as an excuse for inhumane acts of hatred, for that very reason I do not practice any religion as I find them hypocritical. But, religion is practiced according to interpretation. The bible as well as the quran are looked at as guides on how to live our lives. One passage from genesis can be interpreted to mean different things by different people and religious groups. That is why there are so many different branches of different religions. So one person may use their religion as a way to perpetuate hateful ideas and commit horrible deeds, but then another person of the same faith would have the complete opposite perspective on what their faith is teaching and never consider doing such a thing. In short, religion is more down to individual interpretation, I wouldn't be friends with someone who used their religion to breed hate.

Racism on the other hand has a solid meaning that does not leave room for the same kind of differences of interpretation. It is simply to discriminate against someone based on their race.

Excuse grammar or if I have not clarified enough, I'm typing all this on my phone.

tbh wouldnt bother me, same as someone with opposing political/religious views wouldnt bother me as long as they didnt try and force it down my throat

not only white people can be racist btw

LDNMummy - yes, I see what you are saying but, to be clear, I consider rape and murder to be worse than racism which, after all, is not a crime.

Yes, I would be friends with someone who was once a member of the NF. As others have said, people change so they may not hold the same views. And if they did share the same views, as long as he/she didn't air them in front of me then I don't care. I can't stand people preaching politics, religion, sexuality...there are so many more things to chat about and as long as people keeps their views to themselves about those topics then that's ok.

'Ricky Tomlinson (Jim Royle) was a member of the National Front as a young man and is now quite a militant left-winger' is that an improvement?

Struggling to understand how people can seem fairly normal yet hold such contemptible views (although not a member of any of those groups now he did vote bnp in a European election. As I said, I'd have struggled with ukip) at an age when most people will have made some sort of effort to educate themselves a bit, if they somehow missed out on these things at an earlier stage?

Yes I would, and depending on the type of person they were if they were still a member.

We all have our own politics I fail to see why it should break up friendships just don't discuss it.

Bit like having different religious beliefs.

but you'd have to be thick or horrible or both to vote bnp?

MitchiestInge - worthwhile contribution, there!

I think you are right to socialise with him since he has changed his views.

I am mixed heritage, so DD is too of course. DP had an old schoolfriend who kept saying racist things. DP found this very offensive however I encouraged him to keep the friendship going, as I didn't want to come between them when they had been friends since school, also I felt if we couldn't make the effort to try to change this guy's views, how can we hope for a world free of racism?

DP's friend tried hard but couldn't help letting slip offensive remarks in front of me and DD. Arguing with him made no difference and he was always making racist remarks when they went out for a drink as well. Eventually DP cut the friendship; his friend protested a bit but never apologised or accepted he was wrong. Mainly for DD's sake, it seemed like the only way. How could we allow her to play with this guy's children, listening to the slighting remarks he made about people like her and me. But I'm sorry we couldn't find a way to get him to change his divisive and antisocial views.

It depends on whether she was a nice and good person or not

how can a nice and good person hold such views though? Or is it like Hitler being vegetarian?

I'm Muslim and married to an Arab, with a mixed race dd, so a racist probably wouldn't want to be friends with me.

But no, I could never be friends with a racist. It's an abhorrent ideology and the fact that they almost certainly view my husband and dd as lesser beings cements my stance.

I no longer speak to my uncle for other reasons, but his racism, classism and nationalism really bugged me and was ott and I called him on it all the time. He hates the French because he had to learn french at school, he calls the housing developers in our area 'rag heads', he is a bus driver and hates that he has to drive 'lazy fat welfare people' around all day, and anyone with a university education are just as lazy cause they didn't want to get real work. There is plenty more, but I'm glad I don't have to speak to him anymore.

I have other friends that have made tasteless jokes and such but for the most part ignore them. But if someone had changed their view, why not be friends with them.

How do some of you know you don't have friends with what you regard as unpalatable politicial views. They may keep them very quiet. I know that at work it would be inappropriate for me to discuss the fact that I'm a conservative and my dh once stood for office.

idontthinksodoyou - I find what you and your son are going through disgusting & disgraceful. I started reading this thread at work with interest, but have got more angry as I read on! I actually find it quite repulsive that so many people seem to think it's perfectly acceptable to share their racist views with me, & assume I will agree just because I'm white. (I most certainly don't btw!). People I thought seemed perfectly nice will suddenly come out with a racist opinion, usually based on nothing sensible or true, & I immediately lose all respect for them. It really is such a shame what Britain has become, but not for the reasons I usually hear

MitchiestInge Wed 23-Feb-11 18:43:13 how can a nice and good person hold such views though? Or is it like Hitler being vegetarian?

Well I guess it is like being an anti-islamophobe but being a feminist at the same time. In the black and white world of mumsnet of course this is perfectly possible, nay reasonable, nay almost demanded, to be a member of the "nice and good" team.
In the real world holding such mutually exclusive views would be symbolic of the individual's deep confusion and ignorance.

I wonder how that CBS reporter who was molested/assaulted in Egypt felt? I wonder if she felt any fear (phobia)? Did it happen because they were muslims? Did it happen because they were men? Did it happen because she was a woman? Did it happen because she was white? Did it happen because of a combination of these factors? Did it happen because of other factors? What do you think?
Is the world a complicated place where the truth needs to be teased out from multiple sources and experiences and tempered with wisdom or is the truth a subset of your beliefs? Which truth is likely to be more true?

I gave up on this thread when someone put "well, racism isn't a crime".

I am not of the correct mindset right now to try and kindly educate anyone. I'm too busy dealing with making sure my son has equal opportunities.

Let's face it, if you don't know, can't feel that treating another human being differently based upon the simple concept that their skin tone is different to yours, then the fact that there is a law preventing you from doing so isn't going to get through either.

If anybody less stressed without so much happening to their own child right now, would like to explain in more detail, feel free. I feel like I should but I can't muster the energy right now.

IDontThinkSoDoYOU

I heartily concur

No I wouldn't. Their views oppose my entire being so there is no way we would be friends.

IDontThinkSoDoYou - your emotive language isn't going to change a simple principle..that we each of us have what is known as 'freedom of conscience'.

Namely, we are free to hold whatever thoughts we wish, irrespective of how unpleasant, offensive, stupid or illogical they may be.

The same used to be the case for speech - in that we used to have the freedom to say whatever we liked, expect where to do so would encourage harm to others, (shouting "Fire" in a crowded cinema, inciting violence on others etc). This has changed in recent years with the 'hate crime' laws introduced by the last Labour Government.

Nevertheless, my point remains - I would rather socialise with a racist than a murderer or rapist.

A close friend came to dinner last night, and told a horribly racist joke. I was so shocked and disgusted, I just walked out of the room. He knew I was appalled, but laughed it off.

I don't know what to do now - he is a close friend of my husband, and I am close to his wife, and we live in a very small community (abroad) where it would be difficult to cut them off and not socialise with them.

But I am seething.

We're back to degrees of "wrongness".

A member of my family murdered his wife. They had lots of kids and lots of them died as children through various different things. They both fell apart, she had an affair, it was the final thing for him.

We socialise with him. In this case, I'd rather socialise with a murderer than a racist!

There will always be 2 sides at least. Not much in this world is clear cut.