to interact socially with a racist?

[MitchiestInge]

Would you be friends with someone who was once a member of the national front?

have never posted any views on the EDL

Not if he still holds those views. If he had reformed then maybe.

NB: My father is a racist and BNP voter and I don't talk to him (for many other reasons as well but the racism is the cherry on the cake*) - I send bday cards / xmas cards but that's it.

*IME racists don't tend to be over-endowed with other virtues and lovely qualities.

No, never. DS is mixed race, I couldn't stand being nice to someone who wished any harm on him.

I'm sure we have 'debated' politics before, though@Nancy

But whatever.

I'm pretty sure that if the NF - if they still existed and hadn't all had big hissyfits, fallen out and reformed into a dozen other crackpot, football hooligan-populated Nazi groups - wouldn't want to be friends with me, anyway

Excuse poor typing tonight

Sorry missed the bit about "once" part of the BF.

If it is a part of their life that they have left behind and they regret I would socialise with them, not if they still helpd even an iota of those views.

It sounds to me like he has no shame at his NF membership, in which case I wouldn't bother trying to chip away at his views. Nor would I do any more than a simple acknowledgement in the street, and not even that if I thought I could get away with it.

Racism is one of the very few reasons I have blanked/blocked people from my life, I have no tolerance for it whatsoever.

nosuchthingassociety racism has on countless occassions fueled acts of brutal murder, rape and other unimaginable crimes. Look up the story of Emmett Till, a young teenage boy who was brutally tortured and killed for suposedly whistling at a white woman. For me racism is on par with the crimes you mentioned because it is a cause of them.

IDontThinkSoDoYOU I am so sorry your son is going through this, from the description it is almost the same as what I went through in school. I also had my education suffer because of it and it was scarring. I was one of only about six minority students in a year of 300 and it was merciless. It got to the point that I would have panick attacks outside the school gates. It took years to get over and the school failed, some of the teachers obviously had some ingrained racist attitudes themselves so not helpful. My family eventually moved to London to be somewhere more multicultural. It took a long time but I managed to heal a lot of the damage done. I wish you the best in sorting this out and helping your son through this, glad to hear some steps are being taken.

My family and I have to experience the realities of racism because of our background, after being on the recieving end for years, I would not be friends with a racist. I would however challenge their views in a non confrontational way, might open their eyes a little. It is something a fear my child will have to suffer too, and he/ she is not even born yet

Yes. I would find the views repellent but if they had good points or we got on well I would be friends - and argue a lot :o

I don't think it's as simple as 'I definitely would/wouldn't be friends with a racist'.

There was a boy at my school who took great pride in being a racist. He was a clever boy and the girls loved him. I couldn't stand him and was possibly the only person in our year who saw his Nazi sympathies as anything other than an endearing personality quirk.

People can be stupid when they're young though, and whenever I met him after leaving school I was very polite and tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. However, he tried to add me on facebook and his profile picture was Nick Griffin. Request ignored...

But then on the other hand, my DP's granddad, who we used to live with, would come out with horrendous comments about 'wogs' and 'nig nogs'. We challenged him on it, but we love him anyway because he is a kind, gentle old guy who never wished real harm on anybody. He said racist things, but he doesn't actually have a hateful bone in his body,

It's a moot point anyway because these are nit the type of people I have much in common with, so it's unlikely to come up. Back home in Glasgow the biggest issue for me was always religious bigotry, which was deeply ingrained in a lot of young people in my social circle.

I'd like to think I wouldn't...but I'm friends with lots of sexists and I guess it's not that different really so probably double standards. If I stopped socialising with anyone who was sexist, I'd be pretty lonely, I think.

And surely the only way to change things is to educate people...and the only way to do that is to talk to them about things, which you can't do if you never speak to them.

LDNMummy - I know what you mean regarding the motivation of certain vile crimes...but beware of going down that slippery slope that ends up with some murders being more wrong than others, because of the motivations of the murderer.

I say again, to hold racist views themselves harms no-one - to act upon them is what is offensive.

Let's not have 'thought-crime' in this country.

No.

Maddy, I wonder if a racist person can really be "the kindest, loveliest person"?

Nothing very kind or lovely about racism in my view.

Yes, I would - even if they hadn't changed their views. I'm also not fully white - but British-Chinese.

I say so because life is about experiences. Sticking one's head in the head isn't much of an experience! Socialising with that person doesn't mean you'll turn into a Hitler! You have your views; s/he has his. As long as nobody expects the other to 'convert' (one way or the other), what's the harm?

Different strokes, different folks.

However, if that person started insulting me or yelling abuse at someone...then no. However, anyone with that lack of social skills would be cut off no matter if there weren't racist. That's just poor form all round. If the racist kept their views to themselves and didn't announce 'kill the ***' etc to the whole pub, I think that would be fine.

But how can you be friends with someone whose values fundamentally conflict with your own? I could be civil to someone whose views I despised, but I could not respect them, and I would seek to avoid them where possible.

I have loads of friends with different religious and political world views, and I am not at all afraid of that. But racism is so repugnant, it's not the kind of thing where I think I could agree to differ.

I think if you wouldn't be friends with a racist, you'd have to exclude a lot of Indian/chinese/whatever people from your life as well as English racists.

The National Front disgusts me so I would have difficulty with that however, I would base judgement on their current pov.

If I thought a person was basically decent but had been miseducated then yes, I would continue a friendship but would be quite clear about my Pov and why. If that person continued to pursue NF alliances then they would no longer be part of my life.

A lot of peple are brought up with racist attitudes but also, a lot are also open to education.

I would rather educate someone than write them off. That is stooping to the level of racists and bigots.

Cain - you raise a good point...to my mind the ANL, SW and other far left groups are just as vile as the BNP. It's their glee at expressing hatred and bile that is so downright unpleasant.

"I would rather educate someone than write them off."

ew

Yeah I would, so long as they kept it to themselves.

Labour party members however.... it would be a struggle

nosuchthingassociety I never said one motivation for murder was "more wrong" than another. I actually said racism was on par with the examples you gave as it has been a fuel for acts of murder and other heinous crimes for generations, including some of the most brutal in history. I never said anything about thought crime, yes one man can be racist and not a murderer, I don't dispute that. But, you said that there were worse things than racism such as murder and rape, and I was pointing out that I disagree as racism fuels the same sorts of crime and that makes it no different in my opinion. Racism on a larger scale is responsible for some of the worst human rights injustices on the planet, killing someone because of the colour of their skin has been an activity carried out on a large scale globally. That is calculated murder, not even because of mental instability. I was refuting your point, not talking about thought crime or one being worse than another, I actually said it was on par.

No. My immediate family of six of us are are the first people Nazis would come after for so many reasons (we are a big mix of jewish heritage, interracial, immigrants, socialists and intellectual).

LDNmummy, While this may be true: racism was on par with the examples you gave as it has been a fuel for acts of murder and other heinous crimes for generations, including some of the most brutal in history. By that logic you should also not interact with religious people (especially Roman Catholics and Muslims) because some of the things called for and perpetrated by their religions have been the most foul atrocities know to humanity. Also Communists are out (USSR under Stalin?) Humans are very good at giving excuses for acts of hate, it's actions, not words that make a murderer or rapist, If they didn't have racism it would be a different excuse.

Ricky Tomlinson (Jim Royle) was a member of the National Front as a young man and is now quite a militant left-winger. So people can change, especially as they age and get more wisdom.

My dad & stepmother are pretty right-wing and very anti-immigration, homophobic, Conservative, Daily Mail all the way, etc. and I just have to not get into discussions with them, I can't bear it. I also keep an eye on what they say in front of my kids. But 99% of the time it is not an issue, they love my children and are hugely helpful and loving.

If someone was a card-carrying NF member now, as a fully grown adult of over 30 or so, then I don't think I could be 'friends' with them although I would be civil.

LDNmummy - It is deeply upsetting isn't it? When racism is involved in something, it's not just an individual who is attacked.

I should prob start a new thread with how much the school is failing my son. My MP is now involved, the county council tell me they cannot intervene because (even though they fund and employ the entire school workforce) they cannot get involved in the "day to day management" of the school which translates to "we have no power to make a school adhere to any of it's policies".

Does this shock anyone? Do you realise how little power you have when you challenge a school? If your problem is with the day to day management and your governing body is weak, you have no power. School it would appear, is not accountable to the county council or to me.

Depending on the answers I get from the MP, the equalities commission and the Department for Education (and once I find out who the hell the school is accountable to) may mean that I actually take the whole lot of them to court for failing in their duty of care. Once in court, I'm sure they will find someone to blame....