to be angry that Ann Summers has a real woman in underwear in their shop window?

[1eve]

Walking down Market Street in Manchester on Friday I saw a couple of guys taking pictures with their phones at a shop window. When I turned to see what they were photographing I found that there was a woman posing in sexy underwear in a window display. The shop was Ann Summers, although it had changed its name to ManSummers as a publicity thing to get guys to come into the shop and buy valentine gifts for their girlfriends. Now women buying vibrators and dressing up if they want is not a problem for me, although Ann Summers has always leant towards getting women to please men in my view, but sexual desire is never pc anyway so its a tricky subject. But this felt like it crossed a line.
If I'd been walking through town (it was the middle of the day) with my 2 boys, age 4 and 6, that is not what I want them to see. That a woman's role is to be placed on show like a piece of meat while men leer at her? (a group of guys were standing in front of the window laughing and staring, making comments). Is it just me or is this bloody degrading?

Eeeek... Perhaps she was from a competitor?

Most of this stuff gets taken back to the shop next day for a refund doesn't it?

Really, if your wife/girlfriend wanted to wear this kind of underwear she would have bought it herself by now

David that was the case when I worked in a dept store. We would sell all this stuff knowing full well 80% of it would be back a week later!

Well I still say I would not be bothered by women modelling undies in and underwear store, 'high end' or any other.

What does bother me is woman wearing next to nothing in situations where underwear is irrelevant such as those woman who parade around the ring at boxes matches and at car exhibitions etc. But that bothers me, and I can only speak for myself.

its degreading for women imo

all part of the drip drip effect sadly

Totally agree DrNortherner, the ad for rotten teeth with a completely naked woman in it is perplexing!

So is wearing a bikini on a beach degrading? Should we all be covered up in public at all time?

drnortherner can you really not see the difference between a woman on a beach in a bikini - the situation a bikini was designed for, where it is expected, and where most men and women are wearing much less than usual

and

a woman in sexy underwear posing in a shop window, who is there to attract men over, and has done that and there are a group being lewd and taking photos. When a bikini is not generally worn on the high street, and everyone around is fully clothed.

Can you really and in all honesty not see any difference there?

And if you can't, why is there a difference suddenly at a boxing match?

You're not being logical, really.

Because the woman wearing the undies was in a shop that sells undies. Undies are in the window on mannequins that look like woman. Therefore a woman wearing the undies is relevant.

If a guy was in GAP window in just his boxers I am pretty sure a gaggle of hysterical woman would soon be there, cameras at the ready.

And just because I am not following your logic, does not make me illogical.

But that doesn't make it OK does it? There shouldn't be men in GAP in their pants either.

Can you entirely not understand why I would not feel comfortable walking through a gang of men making lascivious comments and photographing a woman posing in her underpants, when I'm out with my children doing a spot of shopping on a Sunday afternoon?

Why is it more important that a shop be allowed to present scantily clad women in their windows in order to attract groups of men, than that people be able to walk down the street without being confronted with said groups of leering men?

I just don't like groups of leering men and I don't think they should be encouraged, frankly. When I was young it was a nightmare going around the place, why egg them on when it makes life such a misery for so many women? Walking through a group of men in that mood when you are 14 say is no laughing matter - why encourage this type of behaviour? Why are they more important than me? Why is their right to assert their sexuality more important than my right to walk around without be harrassed/pestered?

So because you feel uncomfortable we should band woman in pants?!

The OP says a couple of guys were taking pictures on their mobile phones. That's hardly a gang of leering men is it now?

I've been leered at more by men intoxicated with beer on a night out, perhaps we should stop them drinking too?

Maybe we should all start wearing the niquab. The woman doing the moddelling presumably knew what to expect (ie leering Mancs) and still accepted the job.

But what of the women and children having to go through the leering mancs to get to the shops? Why do they not matter?

There are things that I can think of that I wouldn't mind seeing on the high street but I know that other people would be upset or offended by - so I would not expect to see them on the high street because I have some empathy for other people and appreciate their desire to go to the shops without being affronted.

Why is the right of men to leer at women more important than my right to walk down the street with my children without groups of leering men?

That's the bottom line.

Why is it so important to have this on the high street when it so obviously upsets quite a lot of people?

Why are these men more important to you than all of the women and children who feel adversely effected by this campaign?

What harm does it do to you if this woman is not in the shop window?

None.

What harm does it do to people if she is in the shop window?

It makes some people feel uncomfortable in their environments, upset, they may no longer be able to shop in that area.
It makes some women and girls walking in the vicinity feel unsafe.

Does that seem reasonable to you.

Why is it so vital that this woman is there when as far as I can see, her not being there does no harm at all.

Please explain to me why her presence is so vital, that anyone who feels uncomfortable because of it should be ignored.

Well in my opinion it does me no harm her being in the shop, but equally her presence in the shop does me no harm either.

I think you are being a little hysterical about feeling unsafe. Men do use the high street, and us woman have to walk past them all the time.

Some men are dangerous. Unfortunately they will always be dangerous regardless of whether they see a woman in her undies in Anne Summers.

If you choose to dislike it then fine, but I don't buy your argument about it making woman feel unsafe.

her NOT being in the shop I mean....

It wouldn't make me feel unsafe per se, but it undermines me as a woman who would never dream of stripping off in public for the pleasure of strangers, and who thinks any intelligent woman really shouldn't either.

it's an embarassment.

I would not feel comfortable as a 14yo girl walking through a crowd of men leering at a real live woman in her underpants in a shop window. If I saw that I would probably walk around another way to avoid them.

I do not think this makes me abnormal.

I have asked DH and his view is that he would feel uncomfortable with this if he were out shopping with his dad and the girls - he thinks that it would be better if the model were inside the shop.

drnortherner I really think that a young woman is more likely to get a lecherous comment, leer, stare or grope walking through a crowd of men who have gathered to look at this woman, than walking down a high street where men have not gathered to ogle a woman in a shop window.

I do not see why people are so keen to see others upset.

If I were in the "other camp" I would say that while it didn't bother me, I could understand why it might bother others, and as it's not exactly a necessity then if it upsets people then probably best to give it a miss.

The people on this thread have said that the people who object are basically not allowed to do so and must put up with it.

Where is the empathy or concern for living together in a society? Why must the over-riding message be "well I like it so you can take you objections and stick them"? Why is it so important that we have semi naked women in our shop windows?

the girl i saw in the ann summers window yesterday looked 18-19 if she was a day and me and dh both thought she was one of the girls from the shop rather than a professional model as she was short and her face and figure, while okay, was not that of a model.

she looked absolutely humiliated, was not smiling at all and appeared to be quite shy about having people pointing at her and taking photos. i was embarrassed for her, tbh, because in standing someone in a window you are suggesting amsterdam's red light district where it's the women themselves who are for sale.

The shop must have known this would give offence but ignored the issue in order to bring in more punters. I don't know why some people here are so keen to defend this cynical action.

Causing offence is sometimes justified, eg to make a political point, but in this case it was just about profit.

Notice I haven't even mentioned feminism yet. But of course there is a feminist issue here as well which is that this kind of display - like the page 3 girl - helps to reinforce the idea that women's bodies should be readily available at all times for men to look at.

I'm thinking it's fine to do this, but best to do it 9am-3pm Monday to Friday termtime, when the kids are at school. Younger children won't care.

That's an intereting post from Aitch. If the girl really was just one of the shop assistants rather than a model I doubt if she had much of a say in the matter. Which would dispose of the argument that 'The woman doing the moddelling presumably knew what to expect (ie leering Mancs) and still accepted the job'

I've never modelled myself but I can't really imagine any models really being comfortable doing this kind of work. I've seen some modelling shows on TV and it does seem as if they are often pressurised to do things they don't really want to do.
It's quite a difference between strutting the catwalk for Victoria secrets/ posing for top photographers , and being displayed in the window of a sex shop.

I think on model shows such as Americas next top model some girls are sometimes encouraged to do stuff they may be uncomfortable with as they are trying to break into the industry. That might be posing in your pants for a religious girl or posing underwater for a girl scared of water or with a snake for a girl scared of snakes. They are encouraged to do stuff I agree. However for working models they know the score before they accept each job. I seriously doubt someone would be pressurised into underwear modeling if they really didn't want to do it.

We have a lingerie show at a conference centre in our town and believe you me the audience is full of guys.

Anyway, I really think that a live model in AS would probably attract spotty 18 year olds who have never had a girlfriend, not sure its a valid marketing tactic. BTW have you seen teh window displays in agent provocateur?