to be angry that Ann Summers has a real woman in underwear in their shop window?

[1eve]

Walking down Market Street in Manchester on Friday I saw a couple of guys taking pictures with their phones at a shop window. When I turned to see what they were photographing I found that there was a woman posing in sexy underwear in a window display. The shop was Ann Summers, although it had changed its name to ManSummers as a publicity thing to get guys to come into the shop and buy valentine gifts for their girlfriends. Now women buying vibrators and dressing up if they want is not a problem for me, although Ann Summers has always leant towards getting women to please men in my view, but sexual desire is never pc anyway so its a tricky subject. But this felt like it crossed a line.
If I'd been walking through town (it was the middle of the day) with my 2 boys, age 4 and 6, that is not what I want them to see. That a woman's role is to be placed on show like a piece of meat while men leer at her? (a group of guys were standing in front of the window laughing and staring, making comments). Is it just me or is this bloody degrading?

Abs - yes apparently we are jealous.

I am Jamie Lee Curtis - what have I got to be jealous about ?

So it's happened then? I missed the "you're all jealous biatches" post. Damnit.

FWIW, DP described me as a "supermodel" yesterday, so I have no reasons to be jealous of anyone.

We were revealed as being jealous quite early on in the thread

SardineQueen... I'm not saying that it's not right to be angry when harrassed, of course it is, but do something about it then - don't be daft (ie. confront a group of men who might well attack you). Go to the police if you're harrassed; they're actually starting to take more notice of things like that than they used to ten or twenty years ago.

I would rather my DCs remove themselves from morons rather than squaring up to them. You can do as you like, obviously. It doesn't make me a fatalist, it makes me someone who doesn't want to be on TV, sitting tearfully in front of a bank of cameras, asking for witnesses.

It's not you who is 'in the wrong', SQ, it's society, quality of people on the decline, call it what you will. There are things that can be done to make our living environment better (councillors, MPs, pressure groups, etc.), I just don't think that venting at potentially unstable, angry people is the way to go.

Have I explained better?

I'm not suggesting that women should put themselves in dangerous situations, not for one minute.

I am suggesting that if in a "safe" situation a woman loses her temper and gesticulates/shouts something then that is not something to get wildly upset about, I think it is pretty understandable.

Do you really think that if a young woman went to the police and said that some men in a car had shouted something obscene at her then they would actually do something about it? If they would then that is great, but I recently reported a man wanking at me and they weren't that interested, so I don't see that a verbal attack would get very far. Maybe it varies between different police forces.

SQ... They might ask you for the registration number, if you have it, perhaps they will visit the owner of the car and speak to them about it. It doesn't sound much, I know, and perhaps they wouldn't do anything, depending on manpower? I don't know. The police force is due to lose 10,000 officers this year due to lack of funding.

I think you've misunderstood about the 'losing temper' issue. Just because I don't think it's appropriate doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it. You don't need to get validation for what you perceive is the right response anymore than I do but I have my views and you have yours, we don't need to agree.

Really have not the heart to read the whole thread after the first few posts , but

YADNBU

you may as well say 'we sell women here' M&S etc do not feel the need to have live models because they are selling CLOTHES not some degraded notion of sexuality

There is an Ann Summers where I live I have never seen anyone go in, the stuff they have in the window looks like the worst kind of cheap tawdry tat (not that that is strictly relevant I suppose)

Sounds like those basement windows in Amsterdam. The fact that lads were laughing and taking mobile phone photos shows that it looked tacky and wasn't seen as any old advertising.

Not empowering. Cheap, and a disservice to women.

the anti-feminsim sentiment v depressing, but I am already aware that other women are sometimes the worst enemies of their own gender's welfare. we have equality now do we? what total rubbish. you obviously didn't read earlier post. women do two thirds of world's work, get 10% of pay and own 1% of means of production. sound equal to you? feminism is about equality, it doesn't mean you can't get dressed up or get your hair done or take a traditional role in your relationship if that's what you choose to do. Do you really want men to think you are just there for sex and to be looked at? if you do then you might need some counselling, if you don't then why do you want a model to be on show all day in underwear in a shop window being leered at?

Personally I like Anne Summers I like wearing sexy undies too, have a drawer full.

Loads of women have a rampant rabbit don't they?

As long as women are willing to strut around in their undies men will be willing to look.

As long as men are willing to look at women in their undies women will be willing to do it.

I do have an issue with pop stars wearing undies, but in am underwear shop, no.

But it's outside the shop, on the street, and in the window.

She was posing in the shop window wearing underwear. Dummies wear underwear too. On a beach holiday women walk around in bikinis. At the swimming pool women wear costumes/tankinis.

Nobody has called you thick and narrow-minded altinkum. We're having a debate. I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

Having said that, I've used all the arguments I'm going to use, so I'm out of this one

This is not a debate; the last post from 1eve proved that. Talk about pompous and patronising...

I really don't get the whole 'do you really want men to treat you as a sex object' thing. A womans sexuality is just one aspect of her being. If she has a good body then great. If she has a sense of humor then wonderful.

Lying I do not think that a woman getting angry when she is harrassed on the street is an "inappropriate" response, I think it's a normal one, and I think it's a shame that more women don't get angry about the things that happen to them.

We're just coming at it from a completely different angle.

drnortherner for me it was being treated as a sex object by random strange men from the age of about 13 onwards that I found objectionable, I am sure that many other women feel the same way. Encouraging men to ogle women in shop windows when they are out doing their shopping is hardly going to breed a culture of respect where men don't harrass women when they are out ad about is it.

I'm with 1eve, and am amazed that some women think we have achieved a status quo where equality reigns. This is not about other women being able to do as they wish either, as those decisions impact upon the way an entire gender is viewed. In this respect, feminism is not about being able to make an individual choice regardless but more about how those choices affect women collectively.

Altinkum - your comment re 'sperm donors'. Sorry, again I'm failing to understand what you mean. Can you explain?

Altinkum - why do you insist on bringing the debate back to what the men think?