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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be angry that Ann Summers has a real woman in underwear in their shop window?

309 replies

1eve · 13/02/2011 21:09

Walking down Market Street in Manchester on Friday I saw a couple of guys taking pictures with their phones at a shop window. When I turned to see what they were photographing I found that there was a woman posing in sexy underwear in a window display. The shop was Ann Summers, although it had changed its name to ManSummers as a publicity thing to get guys to come into the shop and buy valentine gifts for their girlfriends. Now women buying vibrators and dressing up if they want is not a problem for me, although Ann Summers has always leant towards getting women to please men in my view, but sexual desire is never pc anyway so its a tricky subject. But this felt like it crossed a line.
If I'd been walking through town (it was the middle of the day) with my 2 boys, age 4 and 6, that is not what I want them to see. That a woman's role is to be placed on show like a piece of meat while men leer at her? (a group of guys were standing in front of the window laughing and staring, making comments). Is it just me or is this bloody degrading?

OP posts:
Original poster
1eve · 14/02/2011 14:14

Interesting to see those photos of guys and hard to explain my opinion, but basically feel, although i know many people won't agree it IS different. whatever we may like to think, women are still oppressed in the world today. we do two thirds of the worlds work for ten percent of the income and own one percent of the means of production. also if men get raped its generally by another man, (at least 100,000 women raped in britain per year, I am sure objectifying women as sex objects doesn't help although i'm not blaming it on this)
there is a huge difference between a group we may refer to as 'the oppressor' (men) leering and laughing frequently in a way that society is beginning to deem as normal at a group which could be referred to as 'the oppressed' (women) and the odd example of the oppressed group getting their own back/ making a joke etc by looking at pictures of the oppressor.

is this a bit much for mumsnet?! can you handle it?

OP posts:
neepsntatties · 14/02/2011 14:28

I agree with 1eve. Yanbu OP.

LeninGrad · 14/02/2011 14:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsChemist · 14/02/2011 15:52

YANBU, I was in town this weekend and am quite glad I didn't see this.

jenny60 · 14/02/2011 16:07

I agree with all the wonderful 'militant feminists' here.

And just to set the record straight:

just because something has been going on for ever/all over the place doesn't mean it's ok/never going to change.

no, it's not ok for men to be objectified in the same way as women and yes I would object.

because someone is paid to do something doesn't mean it's automatically ok.

personal choice is relative and does not trump all other considerations.

elseIlltellyourfather · 14/02/2011 16:10

1eve Talks sense, YADNBU. I am shocked how many of you are coming out with lines like "She wants to be there" "She is choosing to do it" "It is empowering" WTF? Not empowering to other women is it, unless we all want do it. Women need to be viewed as equals - we are a long way off this and 'Mansummers' window display is a long way off helping the cause. Feminsim isn't about choice if those choices harm women as a group.

squeakytoy · 14/02/2011 16:18

I am an anti-feminist if there is such a thing. I actually find feminism of the extreme militant kind to be ridiculous and has done more to lose support for women in general.

Its not equality you want, you have that and are still not happy,.. its superiority. You talk down to men, you talk about them as if they are stupid. You assume every man is staring at your tits and "objectifying" you.

You disparage a woman because she CHOOSES to have a career and is able to have a career which involves using her body. You belittle her because you say she is letting women down.

I am a woman, but please, all you "feminists" out there, dont expect support from me. I like to make myself look attractive.. I like having doors opened for me by men and having them offer me their seat. I like being the "weaker" sex actually. And I doubt I am the only one.

jenny60 · 14/02/2011 16:21
Hmm
JamieLeeCurtis · 14/02/2011 16:35
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 14/02/2011 16:36

I consider myself to be a feminist. If you look at what it means it's about equality of women (and men) and that's a good thing.

I don't have time for militants though; it's one thing to have strong views but it's another to beat someone over the head with them until they agree.

One thing I really do disagree with is the tendency of some to expect a heavy-handed solution as the answer to everything. ie. don't want women in underwear in a shop window? Complain and get them banned - anything rather than educate our children on what it means to respect themselves and their bodies and keep themselves safe.

Someone shouts something abusive? Answer is to flip them the bird and take the risk that they'll come and thump you. Much better than ignoring them and taking yourself somewhere else where you feel safer.

Do we really want such a Nanny State where we can't engage commonsense anymore? I can't believe the outrage at such a very little thing really... an underwear-clad woman in a shop window... ho hum.

cep · 14/02/2011 16:43

agree with squeaky and lying was suprised at photo was expecting peep bra and knickers or somthing.

reluctanthomosapien · 14/02/2011 16:57

Not read all of this thread, but in general happy to count myself a "militant" feminist and to say YAdefNBU.

I hate the way the sex industry has permeated all walks of life. The fact that I'm not particularly surprised by this says it all (to me, anyway). It's actually pretty boringly normal, in a horrifying kind of way, sex sells and the ridiculous/tacky/trite nature of it all, against a backdrop of Nuts/tiny prostitute fashion, and the rest, makes it even more depressing. IMO, it's reducing sex and women down to tits and ass and nothing much else.

As an aside, one thing I wondered about was whether what Ann Summers are doing is strictly legal within the context of licensing law. Any licensing lawyers out there? Would this be some sort of "live show" requiring a public entertainments licence (albeit probably only a "one off" licence)? My initial thought is that a live display of cavorting around goes beyond mere "shop" use. If it does need to be licensed, and they haven't, then this is illegal. If they have obtained a licence from the local authority/licensing authority, you might want to complain to that authority for allowing it, if you feel strongly enough about it.

Also, if the shop itself is within a shopping centre or similar (ie, Ann Summers don't own the building) there's every chance that the display may have run contrary to the terms of Ann Summers' lease. In which case, again, if you feel strongly enough about it, contact centre management/the landlord. Shopping centres especially are keen to promote themselves as family friendly destinations, live semi-pornographic shop displays don't really tally. From my own experience of shopping centre landlords, many have tried to resist having shops like Ann Summers but have been unable to prevent them (for boring legal reasons I won't go into). They may welcome a few complaints.

squeakytoy · 14/02/2011 17:01

There is nothing pornographic about a model standing in her underwear.

MirandaGoshawk · 14/02/2011 17:02

YANBU OP.

It sounds like cheap sensationalism (is there any other kind? Hmm )

And the people who don't object to bikinis - neither do I, on the beach. I wouldn't expect to see people wearing them in the High St.

squeakytoy · 14/02/2011 17:05

You would expect to see one being modelled in a swimwear shop though, wouldnt you?

AbsDuCroissant · 14/02/2011 17:06

I remember doing a thread on a similar thing a while ago (La Senza shop window) and being told I was being unreasonable, how dare I not think it was a fabulous career choice for a young lady, blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Has anyone come on yet and do the "oh, you must be hideous and jealous to object to this" yet?

Grandmar · 14/02/2011 17:08

It would make the High Street look like the 'Red Light District'.

DrNortherner · 14/02/2011 17:09

YABU imo.

I am in the not bothered by this one little bit camp.

MirandaGoshawk · 14/02/2011 17:15

squeaky - not by a live model though, to 'sex it up'.

I went past Primark today & noticed their window display - very nice matching bra & pants sets. Selling a product, a good display. My reaction would've been different had they been live models.

snowcake · 14/02/2011 17:15

yanbu

I am sick of this constant display of flesh and the sexualisation in advertisements. I agree with other posters re it being degrading.

I live in the ME and I am glad I don't have to see constant displays of tits and asses and sex and whatnot in high street ads.

JockTamsonsBairns · 14/02/2011 17:25

Squeakytoy I am dismayed at your post of 16.18. You are an "anti-feminist"? Really? Do you understand what feminism is?

MirandaGoshawk · 14/02/2011 17:27

If it had been the window of Millets and the model was wearing camping gear (!) I wouldn't have a problem. The AS thing is wrong because it's not appropriate to have people gawping at women in their underwear in the High St.

SardineQueen · 14/02/2011 17:29

Lying - what is wrong with women getting angry when they are subjected to harrssment on the street?

I spent most of my teenaged years following your advice of ignoring men who harrassed me, and keeping my head down and getting away from them. And that left me feeling powerless and shit. A bit of expressed anger would have done me good TBH, rather than the impotent rage I felt inside.

Your posts all have a very fatalistic tone - this is how it is, we can't do anything to change it etc. Well why not, is what I say. I don't really want men to think it is fine to harrass my DDs on the street when they get older, and I don't want my DDs to think that it is inevitable and just something that happens and they can't do anything about it. I have about 10 years to improve things for them and I am going to do my best.

AbsDuCroissant · 14/02/2011 17:32

I can't put my finger on exactly why it bothers me, but here are some reasons:

  • the fact that near naked women are all over the place in advertising, music videos (the only one I can think of is Mika) - but there are very few near naked men in the same situation. Last year i think it was, there were all these ads for "Aussie Bum" swimming trunks, with pictures of very muscular hunky men, and male friend was really upset about this, saying it put undue pressure on them, they feel inadequate etc. etc. Oh how I LAUGHED as it's much more common for men
  • that it kind of perpetuates the idea that women's bodies are not their own, but for general consumption. One guy I worked with LOVED this kind of thing - his best day was when some page 3 model came and was giving autographs at WH Smith. I stupidly added him as a friend on FB (as did other females who worked with him) and he set up a group asking us to send in topless pictures of ourselves. Then another one asking us to send in picutres of "camel toes" WTF? He was swiftly blocked, but I was insulted that he thought any woman would even consider sending such pictures for some FAT BALDING SMELLY man to letch over

Oh, and he was married with DCs. Gross man

squeakytoy · 14/02/2011 17:34

Jock, Yes I do know exactly what feminism is, and its origins and am very aware of the route it has taken to where it has got today.

Typically because I say I dont agree with it, I am assumed to be ignorant. Believe me, that is very far from the truth. I am more than capable of forming my own opinions on feminism, and I personally find it to be oppressive and antagonistic, hostile, and has tones of brow beating and a holier than thou attitude towards anyone who doesnt agree with the "feminists".

I have looked on the feminist board and would not ever wish to end up so embittered and toxic.