To think that cash-for-internships shows what the Tories think about who should have opportunities

[Himalaya]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1356469/Tory-backers-pay-party-2-000-buy-children-work-experience.html

Folks at tory party HQ don't think that it is a problem that access to first steps on the career ladder in jobs with influence in finance, policy, media, PR etc depend on who-you-know networks and the ability to work for free and live in London... In fact they think it's a good fundraising opportunity and have been selling off internships at top firms for 2-3K.

Tells you all you need to know, really about their views on social mobility and equality of opportunity.

I think London's the most over-priced hole in the world. It would be as bad as Manila, IMO, except Manila is hot.

And yes, with the exception of maybe 5% of them, I think all MP's are twats.

Wandsworth's so lovely, I left Shoreditch for here and it's beautiful.

Lots of MPs are twats, lots of people are, a few of my friends were elected last year and they're not. MPs get such a hard time, like bankers.

1eve - I don't think some children 'deserve' opportunities more than others.

Expat you're such a litlle ray of sunshine today!

Why, thank you, Alouise.

happiestblonde
have you met (virtually or otherwise) Xenia?
You two would have a lot in common
she thinks people should get top earning jobs in the city to pay for top public London day schools for their DC or shut up whinging

You apparently think that my brother was dumb to take up a place at Durham instead of a London uni which would have possibly eventually meant he could sleep on a uni friend's floor for 2 years whilst he was working as an unpaid intern to an MP? Silly him.

Or that he could have paid his rent, utilities, food, pocket money and travel in London (even zone 3, we're talking big money) from a bar job in addition to a full time, demanding job as an MP's researcher? When exactly was he supposed to do this bar work to earn a living to support his lifestyle choice of doing unpaid internship.

And even if he had been sleeping on a friend's floor or working nights in a bar, how would he possibly compete with the other interns, whose parents have (a) bid in an auction for an internship, (b) set up their child in a local flat with all expenses paid?

London IS expensive - then again, it depends on the quality of life you expect. There are LOTS of people who hold down two paying jobs, working day shifts and night shifts, who work in London, live further out and do a (long!) commute in by bus. Their quality of life is crap compared to most on here, but then again, they are prepared to do what they do in order to make enough money to put a roof over their heads. I should know - I've been one of them.

themartorialist
yes, yes, of course, but doing one very demanding, full time job for free does not leave a lot of time to do a second / third job to cover all living expenses

I have lived in London on less than minimulm wage, walked to work because could not afford bus, lived on tinned soup, struggled to pay rent.

Many many people do the same. Not many are doing a high pressure graduate entry level job - one more time, just for fun - for no money.

Oh, and you don't automatically need an [unpaid] internship to get into those sorts of careers. Sure, an internship may be the most obvious way to go, but it's not a necessity.

Cross-posts Greythorne. An unpaid internship is not an automatic necessity - it's just that some people are either too fearful or not imaginative enough to think laterally.

I did my degree in London and still live here twenty two years on. I struggle to bring up my dcs here but hope they will be better placed to take advantage of opportunities (however could not support them to do unpaid internships)

I could never have done an internship when I graduated as I needed to work earning a full time wage to pay my living expenses. I had to get full time work the week after I graduated.

My parents already think Im 'up my own arse' and would never have supported me to do unpaid work. The idea of doing something like that is just alien to them.

I now work in a prestigious university and see at first hand how privelege and wealth eases your path to a better lifestyle*. Yet I bet I'm equally as bright or even brighter than many of them but my background has def held me back. Still I've done well compared to most of my family (she said self patronisingly)

*But smug Tory bastards can't see that. I despise them and all they stand for.

No I haven't met Xenia but yes I do work a stupidly stressful job in the city that I get to for 7.30am and do not leave til 7 atleast before working at home because I want to be able to afford for my DCs to go to private school. It's what I value. Is that wrong?

Only on Mumsnet HappiestBlonde

I'm only reporting on what I've seen firsthand... people who have no parental support doing internships with part time jobs because they know it will get them where they want to be.

I agree with TheSecondComing [we are on the same threads tonight, TSC :)]

HappiestBlonde - if you are for real - be careful, as you are getting dangerously close to the hoary 'I work very hard, so I deserve to be paid £XXXX K' whereas people who work as care workers or cleaners or nurses just sit round on their arses all day, hence they get paid so much less.

'it's just that some people are either too fearful or not imaginative enough to think laterally.'

Of course, it's all their fault they wound up like that. Not imaginative enough, not clever enough, not willing enough to sacrifice, 1001 reasons to justify treating people who are not wealthy like crap.

Yep, only on MN, a microcosm of society.

Whether it's their fault or not, it is true. As for being wealthy, I'm not - not yet, at any rate, but I'd hate to think I use it as an excuse to treat people like crap. Take it from someone who lived rough for months, finally managed to secure jobs and worked two shifts a day whilst doing her A-Levels at a private school on a bursary which I was paying back long after I graduated. The job I'm about to start usually requires or expects internships - I never did one. I may be slightly older than the people on the same level as I am but I got to the same place, albeit by a rather different route. So , if it's alright, I'd rather you kept your sanctimony for someone else.

I'm hopefully wise enough to recognise that the world is not an equal place - some people just get the rough end of the stick, no matter how hard they try. If you're reading this with clothes on and with items around you that were not made in this country, then you should realise that someone somewhere got the shit end of the stick to fulfil your own needs and desires. However, I'm not narrow-minded enough to heap all the blame on you - after all, you are only doing what you believe is right or believe there is little other choice to have the things you need or want.

So yes, I do find it the height of hypocrisy to whine about the so-called "wealthy" as most people only do so when they perceive that THEY are being put at a disadvantage, without realising that the choices they make on a daily basis are, in essence, exactly the same as that which they complain about.

But hey, what do I know? I obviously inhabit a microcosm of society ...

Anyone who thinks you can live in London on a part time bar job has never encountered the realities of living on a low wage.

happiestblonde, Its really not practical to just "move to London". I already live in London and know that if it wasn't for the finacial support of my DP in the next few years, I would not be able to work to support myself while putting in the hours required for an internship, which I will be doing after LO is a year old. It would mean working two full time jobs and barely making ends meet. I know because I had to work while attending college before uni, it was incredibly taxing on me physically and mentally and that was not even an internship, that was a full time college course designed for adult learners which was far more flexible.

The fact that the best internships are contained within London already show's a massive unfairness to the system.

We do live in a meritocracy.

A meritocracy is a society where wealth and privilege are justified retrospectively by the supposed "merit" of the people who have them, and where those people jealously guard those privileges for their own children and still claim "merit" as the explanation for their success.

I'm surprised anyone still buys into that Blairite bollocks.

The idea of a society run by and for "the best" people is loathsome.

Anyone well off and successful who doesn't recognise the role luck played in their achievements is a self-regarding idiot.

Sometimes you can't blame the companies that offer internships - paid or unpaid - to undeserving candidates.

Years ago i worked for an advertising agency. Every so often a new person would turn up who, surprise surprise, was the son/daughter of a client. I remember one who was the laziest hooray twerp you could imagine. He even refused to come in on Fridays because "I'm orf to the carntry" . He was the son of top man at biggest client (one of the big four banks) and there was no way on earth the ad agency chief was going to tell everyone's bread and butter that his son was a useless oaf.

It's galling, but even in the mines/docks it was the same.

It's hardly just luck though, is it? There seems to be this idea that those who end up wealthy only do so because their parents were before them, etc. Although there are probably some to whom this applies, I think we do a massive disservice to rubbish others' efforts in such a manner. All because you're rich does not mean you can simply walk into a top job without any qualifications/gumption whatsoever. Yes, the career I am going into means that I will end up as a high earner and it's rather disappointing that such an assumption will be made simply on the basis of my paycheck as opposed to what I have personally done to get there, and the same applies to many others - it's just that you are not personally privy to whatever sacrifices they have made to get to where they do.

Unless you are willingly sending your children to the most underperforming school you can find, living in the most ghetto-ised area you can, you yourself are applying/specifically advising your children to apply for jobs that are on the lower scale of economic wealth, your relative wealth (and note the word "relative") is working to your advantage. All because there are people out there better off than you are does not mean that you don't indulge in similar behaviour, albeit on a different scale when it comes to the number of 000s in your bank account.

You don't have to walk into an internship straight after university. Sure, it would be great, but it's not a necessity. There are many who start off in lowly paid jobs in the same or a different industry and, with a bit of luck, investigation, lateral thinking/education and sheer bravado (amongst many other things, which do not necessarily include spare cash to flash), work their way up accordingly. Not everyone does it, but from the position I came from, I truly believe that, in this country, more people can than you all realise.

However, from what I've seen on these boards, success is not something to shout about. Most people would like to brush aside people's experiences with the general phrases of "luck" and "private schooling" rather than realise that those are not the things/issues to be focusing on to encourage social mobility. You do not need money to get into certain careers - it may make things easier, but it is not a necessity. At the risk of sounding flippant, it's the same as a luxury car - it may make driving smoother or a more luxurious experience, but a bus fare would still get you from A to B just fine.

Anyway, I'm starting to sound disgustingly syrupy, so I'm going to stop now.