To think it is not poverty to blame.

[goneanddoneitnow]

I see in the news poverty being blamed for childrens bad behaviour and under achievement as well as for health problems.
I think it is attitudes that need changing not income.
If attitudes could be changed through education of parents and students then I think you would find that income and health will improve as a result.
If children are reaching school unable to sit still, listen, share etc, without basic skills and knowledge then what are the parents doing?
And secondly what is the point of free nursery places from age three?
Shouldn't nurseries be preparing children for school?
The majority of the wealthy are wealthy because of the time and effort their parents and family put in and the effort they them selves put in acquiring valuable skills and knowledge.
How many times have you seen big lottery winners lose it all in a few years?

I think the Op makes some very valid points actually.

I certainly agree that poverty is not the only factor. I know lots of horribly behaved rich kids and lots of beautifully behaved, clever but poor DCs (like mine :o)

But it is still undeniably a very big part of parenting.

There was plenty of poverty when I was at school. Poverty does not mean you can not teach your child manners, that costs nothing.

YANBU - there is no poverty in this country - families on low incomes get topped up with tax credits.

I think its isnt a black and white issue. I work with a lot of families where the children struggle with these skills. Often they come from families that havent got the skills themselves. Many of the parents cant read, write and have very limited social skills. It is difficult for these parents to teach their children basic skills as they struggle themselves.

Also I think nursery is a great preparation for school. We follow 6 areas of the EYFS - personal, social and emotional development, Communication, language and literacy, Problem solving, reasoning and numeracy, knowledge and understanding of the world,physical development and creative developnment. YABVU if you think nursery is just minding children. Child care has changed a lot in recent years. I hold a 2:1 degree in Childhood Studies and I know many childminders and nursery staff that are also trained to this level.(often even higher)

I work with predominantly SS referrals and children from low income families. Many of the children need consistent care to help them with their speech and language and holistic development. If you are born in to a stable home environment then you are lucky (I know I am) and have an advantage straight from the off that a lot of these children will never experience.

The previous government recognised your points, op and instigated umprecedented investment in early years. The agenda of Every Child Matters was part of a long term plan to remove children out of poverty, increase chidren's time at nursery and to level the playing field for all children.
Such a shame that all that planning and investment will now be wasted by the Condems. It's not called a poverty trap for nothing.

OP 'The majority of the wealthy are wealthy because of the time and effort their parents and family put in and the effort they them selves put in acquiring valuable skills and knowledge.'

Yeah, right...

I agree with everything purepurple says though. Much as I disliked the labour party they did lift millions of children out of poverty.

You are confusing income levels with class values.

You are right. Giving people money won't solve the problem.

Totally agree about the Trap BTW. DH has a very low paid (but important) job so we've had benefits for ages, as I'm a SAHM and OU student. Last year he got a prolapsed disc and is STILL WAITING for surgery :( so he's now on sick pay, we are £2 over the threshold for income support. He's not going to be able to do the same job ever again probably, and it looks like I'll have to start working as well, while still studying to be a teacher in a few years. By holy crap it's difficult. As I'm still unqualified there's not many jobs I can get and no way on earth could we afford childcare. So we will have to manage with both of us working PT - not too hard as we are used to having no money, we don't have an expensive lifestyle, but still.

If it weren't for OU student funding (I get the entire maths degree for free plus £250ish per year) I would not be able to study. I would not be able to work towards a better life for my family.

Sorry I just realised that rant was largely irrelevant

Bubble You have NO idea...

Poverty is just one factor. I agree with many of the op's points

Isn't rather strikingly illogical to say poverty - the lack of money - can't be cured by money? Poverty IS about money, for heaven's sake! 'The answer isn't money' is a self-serving doctrine doled out by those who have enough and begrudge anyone else having a better share of the cake, IMO.

Of course poverty can be a trap and lack of money can make a significant difference to people's ability to cope and make the right choices.

But bad attitudes cut across all social and financial divides. Not all poor people are struggling saints, just as not all rich people worked hard for and earned their money.

I don't have the backing of rigorous scientific research but I do have ten years of working with what would be described as 'the poor and disadvantaged' and without doubt some of those practiced a learned helplessness, sat back and waited for someone to come along and rescue them. Whereas others didn't. Not surprisingly, the second group and their children did a lot better than the first.

You can't blame the coallition for the fact that some people are crap parents, poverty or no.

"YANBU - there is no poverty in this country - families on low incomes get topped up with tax credits."

That's a joke, right?

And the OP and anyone who feels like agreeing with her would probably benefit from doing some research, instead of lazily dismissing the poor as feckless. Try reading the Marmot reports.

Blaming the poor for the consequences of poverty is an old trick, going way back to the Victorian opponents of social reform. 'How dare those scroungers demand health and safety at work? Don't they know it's their fault if their children are killed in the factory or down the mines?'

Agree with the op. So much more to it than earnings. In this country we have healthcare and education for all. What we can't seem to do is stop negligent and abusive parents producing children. That's the only thing that will stop damaged children repeating the cycle.

Poverty can be cured by money but if a parent doesn't know the basics of how to treat a child properly, that's not a financial problem. Having grown up in a less than well-off environment, I also think it's quite patronising for good parents who happen to be poor, who are ambitious for their children and who have high standards and expectations, to constantly hear that 'poverty = bad parents'.

Poverty and bad parenting are two separate problems that often coincide, but not a straight cause and effect.

bubble - there is no poverty in this country - families on low incomes get topped up with tax credits.

Are you serious? If you seriously think this, your name is appropriate because you must be living in a bubble. How patronising and dismissive to the people living in poverty in Britain today.

Good post spero.

Edam- you can certainly solve the problem of lack of money by dishing out money. Thats a very straightforward logic.

But what you cant necessarily solve, are the complex problems of poor parenting, low expectations, lack of responsibility etc

No, it's you lot who have no idea. Because you're too young I expect.

I was PISS POOR in the 80's when my mum was a single parent under the tory government.

My sister has been a single parent for the last 10 years and her children have a much better qualify of life then we ever had (and rightly so)

You may not believe me now but you wait and see the financial predicament you're in when your children reach 18 and you're no longer entitled to tax credits. Then you'll know what poverty is.