Refused a table at restaurant for having kids

[marissac]

I'm thinking of going to my local news paper to name and shame this restaurant, but would like your wise opinion on it before I do.

Today was the eve of Chinese New Year, my friends decided we should have lunch at a certain Chinese restaurant in Canary Wharf to celebrate. They et extremely busy at lunchtimes so I phoned ahead to make a reservation. Greeted by the maitre d with usual formalities, asked me what time I would like the table for etc. Then when I said it was for a party of 4 adults and 3 kids he paused. Then proceeded to tell mr they were fully booked for lunch today and that they will jot be able to fit us in AT ALL (which was strange since he was asking for my name time and phone number just a minute ago). Then I heard a female voice in the background say that there is a table free until 2, to which I immediately replied I'll take it, we will be done and your table vacated no later than 1:30.

Lo and behold this male waiter then said "don't take this the wrong way, but many customers have complained about noisy children during lunch like it's a party. We get a lot of business people here at lunchtimes. We don't mind children on the weekends, just not during the week." (please note these aren't his EXACT words in the exact order)

I could NOT believe what I heard. And to paint a clearer picture, this is our local Chinese restaurant which we have frequented roughly once a week for the past 3 yrs. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. I will sure be taking my business elsewhere, but would like everyone to be aware of the appalling attitude and service. My kids are never rowdy or unruly, yet they are being talked about like they animals that should be left on a leash tied to a lamppost.

Sorry for the rant. I'm still fuming. Do you think it's worth going to local press? Thanks for listening and for any input.

As long as the parents don't complain about the swearing when I am in the pub I don't care

pagwatch - I know someone who is quite senior at Pennyhill Park - I shall pass on your comments

They are always very nice to children in the Wolseley but I wouldn't take a crawling baby or a toddler there - don't think it's fair on either them or the other diners

Not read whole thread yet, but wanted to say that I don't think that people having business lunches are more important than people having lunch with their DC. If business people want a quiet meeting, they should stay in the office and have one. A restaurant is a public space and one group of people are not more 'entitled' than any other.

I do think a restaurant has the right to ask people to leave if they are disrupting other people and I think parents have a responsibility to ensure their DC behave appropriately. However, refusing to allow a child to enter a restaurant just because they are a child is as bad to me as refusing to serve gay people or black people, in case someone else didn't like it!

In Canary Warf, at Lunch Time sorry but YABVVU

They are busy, with BUSINESS people on their lunch breaks, you intend to take up 3 seats for Children who eat less & therefore pay less, thats even presuming they are well behaved....they are running a business, which is about pleasing the MAJORITY of the customers AND making a profit, so I can totally see where in this instance they are coming from

& I have Kids & can get equally p'd off at no Kids signs etc in certain circumstance, but not in this particular situation,

Oooh I like penny hill.
I especially enjoy the weekend I spend there to coincide with the rugby internationals mothers day.

Karma, no, it isn't the same.

Children will grow into adults who can have business lunches at Canary Wharf if they want. Gay people will not grow into straight people.

And by your reasoning, groups of adults would have every right to descend on soft play places and demand the right to pay and cavort through padded tunnels along with the children.

My DC eat like horses. They would certainly not spend less money. You can't assume that they would automatically be badly behaved, just because they are children or that their right to a seat is less that someone else's.

I get that a restaurant owner has to right to refuse business, but that doesn't make it any less rude.

I don't get the 'if your money is good enough...'. Restaurants do different things at different times. My local bistro for example has a minimum charge between 12-2.30pm. After that you can have just a coffee but not during lunch hour. Fights are more expensive around christmas, hotels more expensive during summer etc. Its not that shocking.

Restaurants have hell a lot of expenses, it is very tricky business, so they have to make sure they make the max profit. Some people on these threads have no clue about running restaurants or any bussiness really.

Also, ( big shock alert) the restaurant sometimes might not actually want you if you are rude or over-demanding or you are 'fuming' easily. Believe it or not sometimes they say 'sod your £50'.

karma drinks are more profitable than food. It doesnt matter the ammount of money but the profit percentage.

Blimey karma really?

Dh and I having lunch in the city spend circa £120 for lunch. My business lunches were comparable. You would spend that on dcs?

When we take the dcs we don't spend £240 even though they eat a lot. And I thought I was generous about such things....

Yes, children will eventually grow up, so it isn't exactly the same. But childhood lasts for a long time and it's still horrible to be told that you can't be trusted to sit and have a meal in a nice place, just because you are a child. I do think that parents must ensure their DC behave properly or accept that they will be asked to leave.

I think wrt softplay that most adults don't want to go (although I have been down the wavy slide once or twice ) and I'm presuming that's a safety thing, so the 30 somethings don't knock the 3 year olds over, racing to the ball pit!

MrsWobble, thank you for that! Glad someone here knows what I'm talking about.

Gemsy, "fools like yourself" is another personal attack. Do that again and I report you. You can disagree strongly with me, but stay civil.

"Who cares where it was and how posh it was"

• I explained why that made a difference in my post. It meant the restaurant had more legroom, more staff, and was way less busy than say a Carluccios or a Giraffe.

"You also said waiters had to walk around/step over your crawling precious...thats just complete arrogance why should people doing their job have to walk over/around your child because it doesnt suit you to restrain them?"
Ya know, I'm guessing that having to step round a baby once or twice in a meal is probably not the biggest inconvenience that guests at these places regularly impose on the waiters. They have to step out of the way of guests who arrogantly get up to go to the loo, they have to go back and forth to fetch water, open windows, close doors in response to guests' arrogant requests for service, etc etc.

You appear to have an image in your head of a baby roaming round the middle of a frantic restaurant causing havoc as desperate waiters with hot coffee and sharp knives rush to and fro around them. Twas not the reality - not even close.

LeQueen - they could have spat in the food. They could have had fake smiles. They could have got a bollocking from Raymond too, or got sacked in the case of spitters. It's a tight ship, tightly managed, with M Blanc in the kitchen most of the time, guests trooping in to see what's happening, and a fierce maitre d'. I doubt we were even in the top 10 most inconvenient guests that day.

I don't think that anyone is saying the business people are more important that precious children. It's a matter of making a choice about the clientele they want and the general tone, atmosphere or whatever you want to call it in the restaurant. I think this sums it up very well:
"I am not a child hater, my life as a mother and my life as a working woman are different and I can see the needs of both. If I go to a relaxing spa I dion't want children (being perfectly nice children enjoying themselves) dive bombing int the plunge pool, if I go out for cocktails I don't want toddlers clinging on to my tights as they cruise round the room. I want to do business in adult, concentrated calm environment."
I would add that as an off-duty woman my needs are sometimes the same. I went to a lovely restaurant quite late in the evening for a romantic and much anticipated date. I was wearing a brand new silk dress, and of course I thought I looked the business. You can probably guess the rest... wandering cute toddler... greasy hands... Mum and Dad just looked dotingly on said child, (Oh, sorreeee!" and I've never been able to get the mark off the dress. Yes, it's marked me for life.
Of course it's not the same as racial discrimination.

karmabeliever, refusing to book a tablefor dc is not the same as refusing tho skin colour or sexuality.

Though if a stag/hen group turned up and wanted a table it would be the same as refusing them - they could be rowdy once seated and things could become difficult with other guests seated eating

I always thought that Pennyhill was like Whatley Manor and didn't even allow children under 14??? I've stayed there quite a few times and have never seen any children....

I really cannot understand all the angst on this thread. I do not take my business clients for meetings on a saturday afternoon in Pizza Express, and I do not take my children to lunch in Canary Wharf. Simply because although I know my DCs will behave, I appreciate that lots of kids don't behave and until we fix that then there will always be places and times that are only appropriate for kids and places and times that are only appropriate for adults. We as parents have created and perpetuated the problem by not involving children in adult life from babyhood onwards, but that's a whole different thread. You can't blame the restaurants for choosing the demographic of client that produces the best revenue stream.

Karma I would usually agree with that, & we often go to a local Restaurant that doesn't generally allow kids, but does allow DD as they know her to be well behaved & we keep her in check.

BUT I think you are missing the most important point here....Where the OPs Restaurant actually is...in the City, frequented at lunch time by business people & the likes, some who will be having a working lunch, THAT is the Restaurants day time business & needs to be catered to as such...which means NO KIDS!!

pagwatch I wouldn't spend that much on lunch out. I was just making the point that my DC do eat as much as an adult. My 13 year old and 10 year old can certainly get through the food.

Wrt money, I suppose it depends on your income. If I had the money and wanted to take my DC to lunch somewhere nice and expensive, then I wouldn't like being told that I couldn't because my DC couldn't be trusted to behave themselves.

Parents have a degree of responsibility here too. I would take my 13 year old, 10 and 9 year olds to a decent restaurant, but not my 3 year old, because she is not ready yet. Parents are capable of making the judgement and it's snotty for the restaurant to make a sweeping judgement.

Stillsquiffy

Children are not allowed in the spa, nor are they allowed in the 'best' restaurant. But they can be guests in the hotel or eat in the large reateraunt.

Laquitar, sorry but if your drinks are more profitable than your food - hell your in deep touble.

drinks where always 29% and that was on a very large buying power with food served at correct weights being 300% on good dishes and 100% on poor dishes. This was going back to 2002 - but in all seriousness it isn't going to have reverted a great deal.

Karma - the children in question must be pre-schoolers, not 9 or 10 year olds.

Having been massively inconvenienced several times when rushing to grab a quick/ quiet sandwich lunch by what looked like an NCT coffee morning (and prams galore) occupying all the seats in both Eat and Pret at Canary Wharf at lunchtime I have a degree of sympathy with the restaurant owner.

I'm normally pretty kid focussed but there are places which are just not child friendly. Sorry.

As others have said Canary wharf at weekend is not Canary Wharf midweek

Ivy, in 'drinks' coffee and tea is included too which has the max profit and grown ups are likely to have one after lunch. Better than orange juice.

Ivykaty - that's the mark up on ingredients though. Mark up on drinks comes without the labour costs. And anyway, most restaurants do FAR better than that on wine, bottled beer, and the mark-up on draught beer is very high.

Karma

I think we are agreeing in part.

I have always taken the dcs to good restaurants since they were small. But always making sure that my desire to eat out with my children does not affect the couple trying to have a quiet romantic meal or the business lunch or the group of elderly ladies in the corner.

I wish children ate out more. I enjoy being in Spain and France where children actively engage with eating out -conversation and food and company. But a substantial group of people seem to feel that a child should be present and bring with them games and behaviours that having nothing to do with eating out and everything to do with dumbing down the experience in the name of 'child friendly'

I love eating out with the dcs. They order decent food, share daddies cheese plate, talk about their day and try foods they haven't experienced before.

It is all about parents responsibility. I agree

drinks are drinks and coffee and tea were food restaurant side

sorry for the confusion but we never included tea or coffee in the bar revenue only into the resturant revenue.