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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rights for children

84 replies

Millenniumbug · 02/02/2011 20:40

AIBU The law has correctly applied the right for same-sex couples to stay in any hotel they want to. But, how many hotels & holiday companies have an adults only policy, (but you can take your dog). Now there are plans for child-free aeroplanes as well. Isn't it time our children were included in anti-discrimination legislation too?

OP posts:
Lamorna · 03/02/2011 07:46

It seems sensible to me to seek out a child friendly hotel, I can't see why you would want to force yourself on one that doesn't really want you!
I don't think that anyone would mind if the DCs were well behaved but not every parent makes their DC behave in a way that won't upset others. Even those with DCs like to leave them behind sometimes and stay in a hotel without other people's DCs.

gorionine · 03/02/2011 07:50

"having children IS a choice though - being gay isn't"

Quite but is being a child a choice?

gorionine · 03/02/2011 07:52

Was just for sake of argumentSmile

Lamorna · 03/02/2011 07:54

If you are a child I'm sure that you would prefer to go to a child friendly hotel than be foisted on one that isn't, just to make a point!

lesley33 · 03/02/2011 07:57

It is illegal to advertise a hotel or B & B as exclusively gay. If someone took them to court, they would win.

Gay friendly is totally different. Many gay friendly places are run by straight couples. It just means that if you are gay, you will be treated like any other guest.

RunawayFishWife · 03/02/2011 08:11

FGS why oh why do so many people think children should have free run in the world?

If you want to go on holiday/ eat out or what ever with your children then go to child friendly places, but sometimes just sometimes it is nice to have a grown up meal/ night out/ holiday with out children.

I have two sons I love them to bits and I would kill or die for them but sometimes having a grown up meal out is lovely, also if I have not taken my children the last thing I want is someone elses child running about and making a noise.

Still OP why don't we just let kids get in to everything, 18 films, lap dancing clubs, casinos, I mean they are missing out on so much Hmm

BuzzLightBeer · 03/02/2011 10:01

Advertising as exclusively could be taken to mean we happen to have an exclusively gay clientele since we are in a gay area/only advertise to gay customers etc. Its not the same thing as "my god says you gays are nasty you're not sleeping in my hotel!". If it was though, the same law would be open to any straight people who felt they were being discriminated against.

No double standard, just another pathetic excuse to defend inexcusable behaviour.

thelibster · 03/02/2011 11:53

Buzz, you can comfort yourself with that hypothesis if you wish, it really matters not one jot to me. I happen to know that exclusively gay hotels exist. I know, because gay friends of mine have stayed in them and worked in them.

I don't believe any straight people would object, not sane ones anyway. Why shouldn't gay people have exclusively gay hotels/holiday resorts if that is what they want from their holidays? But, conversely, why shouldn't people with strict religious beliefs be able to holiday in places where they can be assured of being surrounded by like-minded people? Personally, I wouldn't want to stay in either kind of place because I find it more stimulating to be surrounded by more diverse company.

I can't accompany my daughter on an 18-30 holiday, and I can't take her to accompany me on a SAGA holiday. Please tell me why that, and Gay only hotels aren't "discrimination" and Heterosexual, Married Couples and families only hotels are?

Please could you show me the source of your "quote", or was it, as I suspect, merely a linguistic device used in an attempt to make your point of view more forceful?

thelibster · 03/02/2011 12:18

Actually, Buzz, this is a direct quote from the website of the Hotel to which I think the OP was referring;

"Here at Chymorvah we have few rules, but please note that as Christians we have a deep regard for marriage(being the union of one man to one woman for life to the exclusion of all others).

Therefore, although we extend to all a warm welcome to our home, our double bedded accommodation is not available to unmarried couples â?? Thank you."

So, not turning them away from the hotel, just not allowing them to share a double room, as it seems they wouldn't to a heterosexual couple who were not married.

I know of at least one gay only hotel where you won't even get served a drink if the owners are certain you're not gay! (I'm not going to "out" it because I, personally, think the owners have every right to choose who they serve and that the grounds on which they make their choice is their own business)

I apologise for the mix-up over B & B vs Hotel. I was thinking of the Cookham incident, which is definitely a B & B. I wasn't aware of this Cornish debacle.

InPraiseOfBacchus · 03/02/2011 14:00

Gay adults are capable of behaving politely and respecting other people. Children behave... like children. Not everyone wants that.

Parents have no right to behave like the oppressed minority. Having children is a lifestyle choice. Being gay is not.

Serendippy · 03/02/2011 14:05

I never went to a posh restaurant as a child. Sometimes my parents went out or even away without me. I am ok.

I have a DD, I plan to have more, but would hate for there to be literally nowhere I could go to have some adult time.

YABU.

OTheHugeManatee · 03/02/2011 14:17

Adults-only venues 'discriminating' against children?

Missing sense of perspective much?

thelibster · 03/02/2011 14:57

InPraiseofBacchus You are absolutely right, Gay adults are capable of behaving politely and respecting other people. My only quibble would be with those who seem to delight in causing trouble to people who choose to live their own lives in a different way.

I have already said that there are gay only hotels/guest houses where heterosexual couples are made, at best, to feel totally unwelcome and, at worst, are refused access. Personally I wouldn't want to stay in such a place but not because I don't want to be around gay people. As a polite and respectful adult I would not attempt to stay in any place where I didn't feel welcome and, if I attempted to book into one inadvertently, without being forewarned, I would beat a polite and hasty retreat and think no more of it.

I am irritated by the campaign, led by Stonewall, to target B&Bs who wish to adhere to a strict Christian married couples and family policy because of their religious beliefs with numerous abusive phone-calls and applications for double rooms for gay couples with the express goal of "outing" and prosecuting them. That is neither polite, nor respectful; but it is a minority of militants and I find militants, of any persuasion, abhorrent.

I think if people want to let out a room or two in their own homes for B&B they shouldn't, necessarily have to adhere to the same rules as large hotels as it is their home, often housing their children as well. They should have the right to be "picky" about who they let rooms to, for whatever reason and without giving a reason if necessary, in a way large commercial hotels shouldn't simply because they are "sharing* the accommodation with their own families.

I haven't seen one article where a gay couple were refused accommodation because of their sexuality, which, as you say, is not a lifestyle choice, and would be blatant discrimination. I have only seen incidents of gay couples being refused a double room in which to sleep together for a night. They are perfectly capable of making the choice to accept separate rooms for a night or find alternative accommodation.

To turn for a moment to children's "rights"; my DS is 17 and his gf is 16, it is perfectly lawful for them to have sex, would you have me then, taken to court for refusing to allow them to share a room in our home? Surely by doing so I am infringing their human rights?

I am irritated by the fact that, because I hold this view, some would seek to label me homophobic.

Serendippy · 03/02/2011 15:07

And just to be really irritating...

Yes, being a child is a choice made by someone. It is not a choice made by the child, it is a choice made by the parent. The parent choses to have the child, therefore the choice is made for the child. Anyway, it is not the children who are put out by not being able to go to certain restaurants, it is the parents. So their choice is what is causing them a problem.

BlueCollie · 03/02/2011 15:26

I have banned my child from my home today as I am painting the ceiling does that make him a second class citizen then Wink
I think the only people that would feel their child is a second citizen are those freaky types who never leave their child ever and probably have them sleep in the same bed as them until they leave home where upon the marriage falls apart as they have never given anytime to grow as a couple. I love child free as it means me and my DH can forget about the stresses and strains of being a parent and not be faced with other kids to remind us. Good for our relationship too. Unlike this painting the ceiling malarky though..I could kill him right now for not being here to do it LOL

JeezyPeeps · 03/02/2011 15:27

A couple of points:

A child-free aeroplane should actually work out cheaper per adult, as we won't have to subsidise reduced fares for children.

If we cannot have child-free places, I look forward to seeing children in pubs and clubs across the country. It will certainly save on paying babysitters!

thelibster · 03/02/2011 15:29

LOL @ BlueCollie Grin

doubleease · 03/02/2011 15:36

I quite like the sound of child free aeroplanes Grin but when is a child a child? Under 18? Under 16? Under 12?

You pay full fare for a 12yo so could you go on a child free flight with one?

BuzzLightBeer · 03/02/2011 15:41

Nobody called you homphobic. I said defending bigots makes you look like one. I don't need to point this out to anyone though because with each new post you are digging yourself deeper into a hole.

Private home..business. Do you see how they are 2 different things? You can decide who stays in your home. However the law says that when you open your home as a business to customers you are not allowed to discriminate against them.

Is that hard for you to understand?

meantosay · 03/02/2011 15:49

What is wrong with having child free restaurants or planes or hotels? No one is saying that children cannot travel, or stay in hotels or eat in restaurants. Just that adults should sometimes have a choice as to whether they would like a quiet adult only atmosphere or a noisy, kiddy one.

People who bang on about children's 'rights' to go to any restaurant or wedding they like are often the ones who also think that children have the right to completely take over and be as noisy and disruptive as they want and parents have the right to completely ignore this and be as inconsiderate as they like.

BlueCollie · 03/02/2011 15:54

I went into a pub that does food with my son and his two gay 'odd' parents (don't believe in god but had a naming ceremony and didn't like the word mentor as it reminded me of work!) we couldn't eat there even though my son was only about 10 months and asleep. I told my friends it was their fault as they didn't look 'gay' enough. Not sure who would be second class in this situation...my child, my not looking very gay friends or me and DH for being straight. Maybe I should have dressed my son in some pink glittery hotpants Grin
Anyway on a serious note I didn't care and I didn't take it personally not everyone wants children around and I don't know why parents get so upset by that. We went to the pub next door, also gay..well it is Brighton... and sat in the sun and felt squiffy from two pints Shock

Serendippy · 03/02/2011 16:05

Was this today, BlueCollie ? No wonder you're having trouble painting the ceiling Grin

Oblomov · 03/02/2011 16:06

Sign me up for child free everything. Can't see it happening, but if it did I'd be there like a shot:
dreams of flying off on child free aeroplane, to child free island, eating in child free posh restaurants. Lovely.

thelibster · 03/02/2011 16:23

No, Buzz, it's obviously hard for you to understand. There are many different kinds of business, limited companies are not regulated in exactly the same way as sole traders. There is no obligation to sell your wares to anyone you don't wish to and you don't have to justify yourself, rather like private landlords being allowed to discriminate against people on benefits. But I'm not going to get into a discussion with you on company law, I don't know enough about it and it's obvious you know even less!

BuzzLightBeer · 03/02/2011 16:33

So the judge was mistaken in that you aren't allowed to discriminate on quite a few grounds? Lets call the Guardian, libster knows best!
Hmm

Keep digging.