Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4

Original poster

To not get the point of vegetarianism

94 replies

Dancergirl · 29/01/2011 23:20

I understand people who think it's cruel to kill and eat animals but how is their non-eating of meat going to stop that?

If the animal has already been killed and the meat is there anyway, why not eat it?

OP posts:

Vallhala · 29/01/2011 23:40

Education, education, education, DancerGirl. :o

Original poster

Dancergirl · 29/01/2011 23:42

Vallhala, would you not eat free-range meat then?

OP posts:

Goblinchild · 29/01/2011 23:43

How can you eat meat and be a vegetarian Dancergirl?
That doesn't make sense.

ZuzuandZara · 29/01/2011 23:43

Dancergirl, I have respect for people to eat ethically reared, free range, happy blah blah blah meat, but nothing on gods earth would make me eat it myself. Sorry, I know that was aimed at Vallhala.

putthekettleon · 29/01/2011 23:44

I would imagine that the rise in vegetarianism has certainly contributed to the recent growth in free-range and organic farming. Meat producers thinking 'hmm, they don't eat meat becaise they think it's cruel. Let's not be quite so cruel and maybe some people will start eating meat again.'

When I became a veggie 20 odd years ago there weren't even free range eggs. If I was doing it all over again I would probably just opt for free range meat. However now I have completely and utterly lost my taste for flesh (as proven by an experiment with free range chicken when I was pregnant. Bleeaaarrggghhh.)

Original poster

Dancergirl · 29/01/2011 23:45

Goblinchild - no of course you can't. But I'm asking if you're veggie, why would you eat, say, only free range meat rather than be veggie? That would also make a stand against animal cruelty wouldn't it?

OP posts:

cantspel · 29/01/2011 23:45

Being vegetarian is a bit of a joke really. If you are happy to drink milk then you should eat the cow otherwise it is a waste. Milk cows produce calfs to keep up with the milk supply so we either raise the calfs and eat them, kill all the calfs at birth and waste them(which often happens with male milk cafts anyway as they have very lttle value for meat, or let them live and then we have to feed them and will eventually be over run with cows.

So there is only one true choice Vegan or meat eater.

Original poster

Dancergirl · 29/01/2011 23:47

That's interesting putthekettleon. So it's a taste thing. Question for you: IF you still had a taste for meat, would you eat it now (choosing only free range/organic meat)?

OP posts:

Vallhala · 29/01/2011 23:49

Of course I wouldn't eat meat, no matter how it's killed or how it lived. I'm a vegan!

I don't have the right to be responsible for an animal's premature death nor the fear it will experience as he meets it... or the treatment that so many animals receive in the slaughterhouse, which has caused enough concern to lead several major supermarkets to put CCTV in their abbatoirs.

mutznutz · 29/01/2011 23:49

I'm sorry but there is no such thing as doing your bit...the truth is you're doing nothing.

You're still adding to the slaughter of animals if you consume dairy products...you're just not eating the end result.

If you eat eggs...hens who have a life span of around 10yrs will still be slaughtered after a year or two and if you drink milk...the male calves will still be sent for slaughter (except you wont eat the dead body)..however the cows will still be overbred and will still be heard howling for nights on end for the calf that was taken away straight after birth...so the milk can be given to humans.

I'm not a veggie or a vegan...but I am at least honest in my choices.

littlesez · 29/01/2011 23:50

I don't eat meat or drink milk because i find it gross. so regardless of animal crueltry (which i do care about too) why the fuck would i eat/drink something that i just don't want to?

Goblinchild · 29/01/2011 23:50

I like to live without killing things if I can, or being responsible for the deaths of animals.
However, if shipwrecked on an island with a very limited food supply, I feel I would probably revert to being an omnivore.

MCos · 29/01/2011 23:52

Do you have nothing else to bother you?
To each their own, I say..

Goblinchild · 29/01/2011 23:53

I do know that vegetarianism is only a halfway house with the current farmimg practices.

Vallhala · 29/01/2011 23:53

"If you eat eggs...hens who have a life span of around 10yrs will still be slaughtered after a year or two and if you drink milk...the male calves will still be sent for slaughter (except you wont eat the dead body)..however the cows will still be overbred and will still be heard howling for nights on end for the calf that was taken away straight after birth...so the milk can be given to humans."

And male chicks will be killed at a day old too. :(

MutzNutz, you'd be amazed at the number of meat-eaters who don't know those facts.

mutznutz · 29/01/2011 23:57

I know Vallhala I think (and remember I'm a meat eater) it's good to let people at least make an educated choice.

Lots of people don't know it and lots of people think that because they don't eat meat they're doing their bit...don't get me wrong, the sentiment is a nice one but in reality that's all it is.

putthekettleon · 29/01/2011 23:58

I guess I've come round to the idea that consuming ethically-produced meat will actually do more for animal welfare than just being veggie and opting out of the whole system altogether. As it will create a demand for more free range meat (which is still pretty rare and quite expensive), therefore driving down the price and also normalise it - as has happened with free-range eggs. That's part of the reason I let the DC eat free range meat. Also I don't want to impose my will on them when they're too young to understand, and I'm married to a meat-eater.

However meat tastes vile. Yuk, give me lentils any day.

cantspel · 29/01/2011 23:59

if you are a veggie/free range organic eater do you still have leather shoes, coats, furniture?
How abouts soaps with aminal fats in, or sweets and mr kipling cakes (i am sure mr k doesn't do expensive free range eggs in his exceedlingly good cakes.

Original poster

Dancergirl · 29/01/2011 23:59

This is my point: what does being veggie actually achieve other than give you a 'good' feeling that you have a clear conscious?

And as mutznutz says, why not go the whole way and be a vegan?

I don't think there's anyone who would condone animal cruelty, meat eaters AND veggies. But has vegetarianism actually done anything to reduce this?

OP posts:

ZuzuandZara · 30/01/2011 00:01

Mutznutz, I agree, I'm well aware of the life span of hens, male calves etc. (I do have my own hens and drink soy milk, but I don't avoid milk and eggs in all products).
But I disagree that I'm doing 'nothing'. All the veggies in the world contribute to less farming and slaughter of animals for meat.

cantspel · 30/01/2011 00:04

"All the veggies in the world contribute to less farming and slaughter of animals for meat."

You also contribute to the slaughter of perfectly good male milk calves as there is no market or value in them.

They could be raised as veal but the market for veal is now so small that it is not financially viable for many farmers. So instead they are shot and burned.

Vallhala · 30/01/2011 00:04

Cantspel, my veggie daughters don't wear leather nor do they eat anything with animal fats in it, such as beef suet in puddings or gelatine in sweets. (And nor do I of course).

The vast majority of vegetarians I know are also those who are veggie on moral grounds and they follow the same rules as my DDs. That said, given that I'm an A/R supporter it's not surprising that most of my veggie pals are so for moral rather than health/taste reasons.

ChippingInSmellyCheeseFreak · 30/01/2011 00:05

No energy for this debate tonight - but just putting it on my 'Threads I'm on' for tomorrow - see you all then.

ZuzuandZara · 30/01/2011 00:07

cantspel, I don't have any leather products and avoid soaps, sweets etc with dead animal in but I do eat products that contain milk and eggs.
No excuse to not be vegan really, I completely agree.
Valhalla, how long were you veggie before you went vegan?

threefeethighandrising · 30/01/2011 00:09

If 20% of all people didn't eat meat (taking your figure - I doubt it's this many tbh) then there would be less meat reared and killed.

That's obvious, no?

Flip

1 2 3 4