to think that surely not EVERYONE hates Maggie?

[LadyOfTheManor]

Seriously, unless you're a miner or from a mining family, or Welsh... ok well even if you are, surely not EVERYONE hates Maggie T?

I'm a tad young, I was born in her "reign", but I did my degree in Politics and although I didn't really live under her (it was Major until I was 11) I couldn't see what she did that was SO terrible-let alone the sheer hostility when her name is mentioned here (in Wales!).

Niceguy - Wasn't just the mines though.

She went after the shipyards, the steelworks, and the automotive industry.

Pretty much all the manufacturing in the central belt of Scotland.

Tens of thousands of people lost their jobs either directly or indirectly due to the closure of Ravenscraig, Linwood etc..

What she meant was that society as an entity does not exist- it is merely a collective term for individuals with no cohesive mindset or values, so "society" cannot help you and there's no point in blaming all your ills on society.

This is the basis for the Conservative Ideology. However, one can chose to believe in the concept of 'society' as part of an ideology where there is a cohesive mindset in which we DO help each other.

suicide rates went up by 27% during "maggie's" reign.

she was a destructive, repulsive politician and she was directly responsible for so much pain, debt and death.

I think manufacuring everywhere was badly affected. The only firm the government stepped in to save was Rolls Royce....Not the cars!

It was that woman who deregulated the banks and moved the focus from manufacturing to the service sector, (financial services especially). I remember her stating that quite clearly. As well as all the other stuff that has been mentioned already

And look where it got us.

We HATE her with a passion. I cannot tolerate the sound of it's name. Witch. And she stole my milk.

DH and I were talking about the upcoming bank holiday for the Royal Wedding.

He said, "They're talking about having a bank holiday when Thatcher dies, too..."

Me: "Well, that's a bit off, I mean, people talk about having parties and that, but a bank holiday?"

Turns out it's supposed to be a day of national mourning, not celebration like I accidentally assumed

Lol Heathen.

The Maggie Thatcher Milk Snatcher is a bit of an urban myth.

If you look at the Cabinet papers that were released about 10 years ago you see that she was actually concerned about the cuts to school milk and she was the one that proposed the compromise to retain school milk for under 7s. She earned the label because she was Education Secretary at the time and everyone perceived it to be her decision alone, rather than a Cabinet decision.

Also, for those that were/are against the Falklands War, were we supposed to leave several thousand British citizens to lose everything they had?
The Falklands has always been governed through self-determination - if the people that live there want to be British subjects then we have a duty to protect them. If they wanted to be Argentinean then the islands would be handed over.

For info, Argentina has very little claim on the Falklands. There has been a British colony on the islands since before Argentina existed as a country in its own right.
The Falklands War had nothing to do with Argentina wanting to reclaim the land and everything to do with the Junta wanting to distract the Argentinean people from the mess that the country was in.

It's all about context. In the runup to Thatcher's election in 1979, inflation was rampant (10% over the winter 1978-9, for example) and the runs on the pound in 1975 and 1976 meant that the Callaghan government (Labour) had to get a bailout from the IMF.

In exchange, the IMF imposed cuts on public spending, which meant public sector worker pay freezes. As a consequence, several public sector unions went on strike, which in turn meant that the nationalised utilities only worked some of the time (ie blackouts etc), piles of rubbish rotted in the streets, and women in labour had to fight their way across picket lines to get into the maternity hospital.

(Source: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6729683.stm)

The reason Thatcher closed the mines was partly to break the grip of the unions, who had the country's infrastructure in gridlock. Though the consequences for the North of England were appalling, I can see why she decided to do that. In the context of rolling blackouts, I can also understand (even though I don't always like the outcome) why she privatised utilities.

All politicians leave a legacy of good and bad. Thatcher's era transformed the country, in some ways for the worse. I'm angry at the way she frittered the North Sea oil and gas money on paying dole payments to miners, instead of investing it in the country's future. I also recognise that her policies left some areas of the UK devastated. But I can also understand why she did some of the things she did, and I think when assessing her legacy it's important to look at context rather than just resorting to tribalism.

The solution? Don't invest billions into research into nulcear warheads. Don't take the country into an uneccessary war that was about 'proving' oneself as a 'patriot'.

Don't create a culture whereby those who 'have' are considered better than those who 'don't have' (and thus, by Tory defintition are 'feckless', 'job-shy' and 'lazy' and couldn't possibly be economically disadvantaged or less educated)

Don't dismantle the Welfare State. I would happily pay higher taxes in order to support those in need.

She was probably thinking of the dairy farmers at home in the east midlands. CaveMum.

"I want to live in a community that gives a shit about the less fortunate. Isn't that just, well.... humane?"

It is, but it is also good for us all - beyond altruism. According the the book The Spirit Level the most succesful countries in terms of stability, happiness, and a range of other indices, are countries where the gap between rich and poor is relatively small. This is not dependent on wealth - poorer countries with a low polarity of wealth are more successful than overall richer countries with a high polarity.

Thatcher did one thing: she unlocked the link-chains between wealth and class: but unfortunately the yuppy greedocracy that ensued has underpinned our current credit-led desparation for status through material goods. IMO.

But all the industries that closed were loss making. What was the solution? If you cant make any money doing an economic activity, why are you doing it?

We were making cars no-one wanted- everyone wanted German or Japanese- they were cheaper and better.

The steel industry was never going to survive- we don't have the raw materials and we should have de-manned and specialised in the 70's. By 1979 it was too late. if you look round a modern steel plant in Germany, Sweden or China, the notable thing is how few people are needed to work them.

Shipbuilding was going to Asia.

What can you do? You've got to try to find something else you can compete in and the problem is finding something else that's as labour intensive as what you've lost.

oh my hatred stems from being very active in the Labour and Trades Union movement in the 1980's and in CND - I was at Greenham I am proud to say

I have great respect and admiration for her. She was and is a highly intelligent woman, who came from a humble background at a time when it was difficult for girls of her class to progress. She got her education on merit. After developing her interest in politics, she went back to university to do a second degree in law so she would be a better legislator. She was harder working, better prepared and smarter than most of the men who looked down on her because of her background and gender. She had intellectual rigour in that her policies were based on a idealogy which even if you didn't agree with it, was very clear and formed a firm foundation for what she later did. No govt by focus group.

I am Welsh and remember the miners strike very well indeed. There is so much sentimental claptrap talked about it. The miners did not have a proper ballot, and Kim Howells has subsequently admitted that they should not have come out. Mining has raped the countryside of Wales and has dreadful horrible effects on those who carry it out. When the last mine in Wales shuts, I'll be opening a bottle of champagne, and hope we can get away in the 21st century from a fuel that has such a high price.

And lets just remember the reality of the steel works - hideous over manning, job demarcation and old fashioned union bosses who wouldn't let you sneeze without a Nose permit and an extra payment. Is there anyone now who would really advocate the nationalisation of our telephone service? Seriously? We grew up with a party line (sounds practically Victorian as I write this) - even though my dad worked for BT or the Post Office as it was before, the waiting list for a phone was about 3 months.

No, I am glad she came along, respect and admire her, and think it is sick that anyone would be glad at her death. I don't agree with Tony Benn, think his policies were/are bonkers, but have great respect for him as a person, and would be genuinely sad if he died.

The Falklands situation was preventable. The Argentinian attitude was that Britain would not respond militarily to an invasion. It would have been easy to make a show of force. Royal Navy captain Nicholas Barker believed that the intention expressed in Defence Secretary John Nott's 1981 review to withdraw the Royal Navy ship HMS Endurance, Britain's only naval presence in the South Atlantic, sent a signal to the Argentines that Britain was unwilling, and would soon be unable, to defend its territories and subjects in the Falklands.

Thatcher let it happen to win an election.

I really don't think a bank holiday is appropriate

[shudders at all those ruined bottles of long badly stored champagne]

Scuttle All that you say about her background is true.

But you forgot to mention that along with those admirable qualifications, she aquired a condescending, smug attitude that was / is repelent. There was absolutely no humility. And that is a vile characteristic.

The absolute belief that her policies were right, that there no other way and that anyone who disagreed with her was 'stupid' and unpatriotic made / makes my blood boil. Still.

Gordy was also at Greenham! But aged about 10 with my mother!

nagy - no, it was later than that. I wasn't born til 73 and it was when I was preschool kind of age.

But narky the Argentinean's were daft - if they knew that Endurance was being withdrawn and, if I recall correctly decommissioned, they needed to wait only a few more months before invading.

DH is in the RAF and spent 7 months living in the Falklands in 2007. He said you will not meet a group of more patriotic people anywhere in the world: Union flags flying from every house, servicemen welcomed with open arms where ever they go.

DH helped with some of the SAMA 25th anniversary commemorations and the returning veterans were treated like heros.

FIL was a miner in the 70s/80s & wasn't poverty stricken, he was earning a good wage. He then went on to work as a mech. engineer also on a good wage. Most miners from the pits he worked in during that time were on strike/ on holiday/ doing cash in hand jobs, although towards the end their money ran out and brought the strike to an end. He has a strong dislike of Thatcher for her sledge hammer approach but sees Scargill as equally damaging to the miners.

The reason imo is that lots of w/c people voted for Thatcher was opportunity to own their own homes and was pro small business which employ a significant % of the population.

MT didn't grow up in poverty Scuttle, but many did thanks to her government.

Her father was very involved in local polotics. I think that's why she developed an interest.

The woman had no personal princples at all. Though I daresay she may not be the only person in the history of politics for whim that is true.
Dennis ran a company that manufactured shackles for chaining up black people in S Africa.

She caused a lot of ruin on a lot of fronts, least of all public housing and mental health, public transport ("if you're on the bus at 30 you're a failure") and individual materialism versus community.

Her damage is yet to be undone, its cultural and you can see it here on Mumsnet every day.

"nagy - no, it was later than that. I wasn't born til 73 and it was when I was preschool kind of age."

There were 3 day weeks in both '74 (Ted Heath which was the time of the famous " three day week") but there were also three day weeks in 78-9 (James Callaghan, Winter of discontent due to blackouts, although this wasn't officially called "The three day week" IYSWIM).