to think that surely not EVERYONE hates Maggie?

[LadyOfTheManor]

Seriously, unless you're a miner or from a mining family, or Welsh... ok well even if you are, surely not EVERYONE hates Maggie T?

I'm a tad young, I was born in her "reign", but I did my degree in Politics and although I didn't really live under her (it was Major until I was 11) I couldn't see what she did that was SO terrible-let alone the sheer hostility when her name is mentioned here (in Wales!).

Hulababy.....the 3 day week and all the power cuts were when Ted Heath was PM I think. The 70's were not great but what followed was much worse for many.

Nothing wrong with people living within their means "Niceguy"

However for many, many people she removed the means practically overnight. What do you live off then?

nagy- shame on you- learn your history- the Winter of Discontent and all that- 1978-9.

im slightly worried that you graduated with a politics degree and you dont know why people hate her? unless of course you went to oxbridge...and even then...

We didn't get that far.

Erm, you did a degree in politics and yet don't appreciate the harm she did?

oh, please don't go Whitecat.

Yeah, that's right, because the only conclusions one can draw from a politics degree is that the Tories are awful and things would have been so much better if that nice Mr Callaghan and his friend Tony Benn had got in.

I suppose all politicians could be seen as "doing harm" if you happen to come from the opposite end of the spectrum.

It's interesting - when people say "oh, everyone hated Thatcher/Blair" (or name of any other currently despised politician) it usually just means that the people they know through friends and acquaintances don't disagree with them.

When it comes to politics, there is a mindset on each extremity which actually finds it totally impossible to imagine what it is like to think as the polar opposite. They just can't.

Well, Niceguy2, our family had our means withdrawn overnight. And we weren't miners, nor did we go on strike.
BaggedAndTagged: I believe nagy's referring specifically to events earlier in the 70s during the Heath government.

And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first.

so what happens to those people with mental health disabilities who find themselves homeless / without family?

Those who have physical disabilities who are unable to work? And - given the current debate - their Carers?

Those born to families in areas where there is no employment? Those areas DO still exist.

People who have worked in low income jobs for many many years who suddenly find themselves unemployed due to recession?

People who have to stop working due to illness?

We are not all born within the same distance of the prize and if you dismantal the Welfare State ('Society'), you create a situation of 'them and us'.

I want to live in a community that gives a shit about the less fortunate. Isn't that just, well.... humane?

May i ask what your "means" were?

IFancy. What she means is that people ultimately must take responsibility for themselves first.

So if there are no jobs where you live. You move or travel to where there are.

What you don't do is expect the govt to do everything for you and provide jobs you think you deserve within spitting distance of your home.

Shame on you Bagged!

3 day week...I was doing my O levels. Tory government 1970-74 I'm sure it was Ted Heath.

Winter of discontent was a labour government....That's why maggie got in.

I opened this thread hoping that she'd died and I could open a bottle of champagne then join the queue to dance on her grave. Oh well, still got all that to look forward to.

I hate her

AGGGGGHHHHHHHH- please, if we're going to bang on about the society thing, can we take it in context.

What she meant was that society as an entity does not exist- it is merely a collective term for individuals with no cohesive mindset or values, so "society" cannot help you and there's no point in blaming all your ills on society.

We should all look to ourselves first. If we cannot make it alone, then we should get help, but most people, however they are disadvantaged, can make some impact on their own lives, whether for the better or worse.

ah good ole maggie
she's the reason i started to hate the tories

and she'd have been chucked out alot sooner if it hadn't been for the Falklands

SWC - erm, it's not. But you'd think you'd come out at the end of one with some trace of understanding that peoples' politics aren't always based on 'what did that individual politician do TO ME'.

What she means is that people ultimately must take responsibility for themselves first.

I appreciate this is what she saying. I am not stupid.

So if there are no jobs where you live. You move or travel to where there are.

My point - which I don't think I made oblique - is that not everyone is a position to do this. A person with debilitating disabilities is unable to work in Edinburgh or Exeter. You don't leave the illness behind...

What you don't do is expect the govt to do everything for you and provide jobs you think you deserve within spitting distance of your home

Please refer to above point....

IFAS- so what was the solution? What should she have done , in 1979, when she came to power? What would have been a better fix?

She was without empathy or compassion.
Survival of the fittest was her policy.