to think that surely not EVERYONE hates Maggie?

[LadyOfTheManor]

Seriously, unless you're a miner or from a mining family, or Welsh... ok well even if you are, surely not EVERYONE hates Maggie T?

I'm a tad young, I was born in her "reign", but I did my degree in Politics and although I didn't really live under her (it was Major until I was 11) I couldn't see what she did that was SO terrible-let alone the sheer hostility when her name is mentioned here (in Wales!).

I'm a communist small c, not Communist.

Not from Wiki, from a sociology essay I wrote recently.

So tell us who that works then? In real life?

FN - just read back a little bit and seen your thingy about social housing - it caused a lot of problems back then as well, tbf - many people who needed social housing were placed in B&Bs at enormous expense to the local councils because they didn't have enough housing stock to place them in a house/flat. It WAS a mad plan - maybe not the selling off, but the refusal to allow rebuild with the money.

It didn't need any kind of crystal ball to work out that that wasn't going to cause problems. It did almost immediately.

The trouble the communism is the onlt way it works is by mass oppression of the little people. So, a bit like fascism then. It still relies on a few powerful people at the top controlling the rest. The only difference is the government pays them to do it.

Sorry - I just can't type today. I meant: The trouble with communism is the only way it works...

So given it was such a huge issue and Tony was so flush with our cash he didn't exactly do much to solve it, did he? I'm not saying it was a perfect plan (it was well-intentioned but flawed IMHO) but there has been ample time and money to resolve those issues with publicly owned housing stock, but clearly Labour didn't really care either. We just need a bit of prespective on it, that's all.

negativity works both ways - as a front line public sector worker I saw some great things under labour and as a self made buisness man my ex husband had his most productive years under the last government

They at least faced the recession with the brilliant idea of paying people to work - short term debt for long term social, economic and business strength and recovery

my solution - better to pay people to dig holes and people to fill them in - generating tax revenue and economic spending than have massive unemployment and public sector cuts

under labours plan the debt would be paid off in 20 or less years - my mortgage is for 25 - I consider that a debt worth having

FN - Tony Blair and New Labour were a Massive Disappointment to me, at least. I was disgusted that they didn't try to rectify some of the situations, and that they in fact made them worse! I am no fan of New Labour either.

you're thinking of Communism, actual real communism has never been seen, no-one can say how it works.

From a personal perspective we're no better off in real terms than in 1997, but every year our tax bills have risen, our accountancy fees have hit the sky because of the complicated mess that GB &TB made of HMRC, who incidentally struggle massively with their own rules.

Tb &gb had huge tax revenues for donkeys years from their meddling and engineering so aibu in wondering where all the cash has gone? When times are good, you save, which covers you for a rainy day. Just where did they put the rainy day fund??

"Maggie still stands out above that crowd as hated most of all. Do you really think there aren't good reasons for that?"

There are. Mainly this - people need a bogey(wo)man and concentrating all their hate in one place makes them feel good, and as if they are doing something constructive, whereas the opposite is true. Think about the Public Enemy Number One scenes in "1984".

I don't get why it's so wrong to dislike someboyd who had such a terrible effect on your life?

My life was made worse as a DIRECT result of HER ideology and her policy

I grew up in an era of such poverty of opportunity, such lack of recources and such hatred from HER and HER PARTY towards the place I came from

I don't dislike ALL of those involved - some had integrity and decency (they resigned or where ousted) but I do hate her because to this day she is proud of what she did

That is based on experience - not 'needing a bogeyman/woman' at all

or are we not aloud to hate people who damage us?

I LOVE Thatcher. I genuinely worship her. I will personally guard her grave when she dies.

Don't like anyone who intends to celebrate the death of anyone else. Revolting.

carminaburana - the Gini Coefficient measures social inequality. The higher the Gini Coefficient the more unequal a society is. It is a bit of a crude measure but essentially it is a statistical measure of the the gap in income/wealth between the richest and poorest segments of society.

Typically, very poor 'Third World' nations have the biggest gap with the astoundingly rich living in absolute squalid luxury as people starve in the streets. The USA also has a very high Gini Coefficent with great wealth disparity betwen rich and poor. The UK has less of a gap between rich and poor but it got much worse under Labour in the last decade. That is exacly the opposite of what you would expect as countries in Scandinavia with strong welfare states tend to have more equal societies and lower Gini Coefficients.

Countries with high Gini Coefficients have usually got high degrees of social tension. The countries of North Africa that are rioting now are very good examples.

Thank you beenbeta

Talking of North African rioting countries, does anyone have a crystal ball wrt Morocco?

Logically, to me, it has to be next.

Sudan is the next domino to fall, they are already calling for mass protests. Morocco maybe, but its a very different place than either Tunisia or Egypt.

I was thinking the very same myself today A!!!

Or Yemen perhaps.

Buzz perhaps there is a reason communism with a small c had never really been put to the test. After Armageddon you can start it, ok? No-one will have anything to lose.

cool. communists are like cockroaches, we'll still be here!
There are a great many reasons why it never has been tested, but I think it will eventually. Not in my lifetime, but eventually. Some form of communism is ultimately the only way we could ever have a world without poverty and hunger. Its not the worst ideal to have is it?

Yes to Yemen, though we really should be watching Jordan, because if they go up in smoke it could have big repercussions throughout the middle east.

So is Communism not an attempt at communism then? You'll have to help me out here.

well, sort of, but not really. The necessary conditions weren't there, and the motivations were arseways, it was never real communism, not even at the start. Its difficult to explain without writing a very long essay on it!

which is actually what I should be doing now, only on something only slightly relevant.

North Korea are trying 'some form of communism' - can't say I'd like to live there.