to think that surely not EVERYONE hates Maggie?

[LadyOfTheManor]

Seriously, unless you're a miner or from a mining family, or Welsh... ok well even if you are, surely not EVERYONE hates Maggie T?

I'm a tad young, I was born in her "reign", but I did my degree in Politics and although I didn't really live under her (it was Major until I was 11) I couldn't see what she did that was SO terrible-let alone the sheer hostility when her name is mentioned here (in Wales!).

oops yanbu, william hague

YABU. She is a c**t.

Keeping her own party under control was one of her major successes. of course they didn't like it. they liked the succes though.

Also, being a Woman in politics and not 'one of the boys' she got a harder time than a bloke in the same role would have.

Blair asked her for advice - it wasn't a matter of not being able to move away from her political strategy - it was a matter of not wanting to.

I'm a big fan of realpolitik. currently that dictates we talk to China (with its multifarious human rights abuses) - then it meant talking to Pinochet.

She fucked up this country. Big Time.

In 1998, MT said she regretted signing the Agreement. She was very surprised by the strength of the Unionist opposition to it (none of the sides in the Northern Irish conflict were all that impressed by the 'Iron Lady' as most of them were composed of solid rock themselves) and also that Enoch Powell had been right in his assessment of her policy - 'the penalty for treachery is to fall into public contempt..'

There was no moral element involved in Thatcher's approach in NI, no sense of responsibility to the wider community there. It was another example of her usual 'drive a tank straight through it' style, and it led to massive polarisation among well armed militias and the predictable (to all except her) misery could have been avoided. That the Agreement eventually led to more peaceful times in NI had nothing to do with her; wiser heads finally took it and ran with it. She herself had contributed so much to the rancour and bitterness of NI politics at the time that no further progress was possible.

The workability of the agreement depended upon a foundation of goodwill and an appreciation of mutual best interests - at no point in her political career did Thatcher ever see her role as anything but Chief Firebrand, which is bad enough when the livelihood of large sections of the British population and the economic future of vast swathes of Britain were at stake, but in a part of the world where there were armed militias at each other's throats, her inflammatory style and heavy handed approach were utterly irresponsible.

And yes, the hunger strikers were protesting internment without trial and the conditions under which the internees were held.

Realpolitik is fine as long as you don't go about preaching morality and pretending your politics are based on religious values, as she was very fond of doing (like her friend Reagan).

I had a friend at school who's mother was in the same class as MT at grammar school. She said she was a vile individual at school and couldn't see that she'd changed much when she entered politics.

Another one here who hates her and all her works.

The only people I know who don't are those who are seriously lacking in empathy.

She didn't get a hard time because she was a woman, she got a hard time because she was a widely despised cunt of the highest order.

Even after leaving office, she took a job as a consultant with Big Tobacco company Phillip Morris, just to make sure she could have a hand in a few more deaths to add to her total?

She destroyed my family when I was a child and I'm still working to redress that legacy 20-odd years later.

I'm proud to say I'll never be selfish enough to vote Tory (I've been poor and it's sh*t).

The day Thatcher dies I'll crack open the champagne and dance on her grave.

It's only a shame that the personal demise that she is now suffering won't ever begin to match the misery she inflicted on an entire generation.

HATE doesn't even touch it.

Thatcher had a huge influence over the fall of the Eastern Block which was a huge threat to the rest of Europe. How many Poles, Russians, Slovaks, Czechs, Hungarians, would want to return to the 1960-1989 period when they lived with economic, social and demographic restriction. How many posters who claim to support some form of equality for all on here would like to live within those restrictions.

Ifancyashandy AND Mathanxiety ... I stand corrected on the internment thing ... hadn't revised for this exam!

Bollocks she had anything to do with that, absolute boo-hockey.

She didn't get a hard time because she was a woman, she got a hard time because she was a widely despised cunt of the highest order.

Couldn't have put it better myself

Language Timothy!

The intellectual rigour is somewhat lacking from the debate now don't you think?

Mathanxiety put it far better than I could ever hope to.

(and Mathanxiety can spell internment

Gotta go to bed - but its been fun! Night all

Honestly, I go out for a few hours and look at how this thread has degenerated, no robust debate, no answers to questions, just more threats about dancing on graves and drinking champagne.

Well the thread did turn to a future interment... plus champagne, dancing, etc.

If MT or Reagan really thought they were actively working for the fall of the Soviet Union and the freedom of Eastern Europe, both would have:
(a) been huge supporters of the EEC/EU.
(b) had some plan as to what would/should happen once the USSR collapsed.

They were both poking in the dark, grandstanding to their respective electorates in all their speechifying about Communism, the Evil Empire, blah blah.

Just because the evidence presented doesn't support your view does not mean a thread has degenerated, Alouiseg.

I think there have been some fantastically inciteful posts on both sides of the debate.

I will still never be a tory. And cannot forget what MT and others have done over the last 32 years.

Mathanxiety - internment ended long before she was in office; the hunger strikes were over Sinn Fein/IRA's desire for "poliitical prisoner" status and the Government' refusal to grant it.

YABU. I hate her. She created the "I'm all right Jack, sod everyone else" culture that still pervades and she contributed massively to the consumerist, entitled society that we live in today. As well as starting the wreckage of the NHS, the utility services, public transport etc.

Yep, still hate her.