Childless employee asking for flexible working

[sparechange]

I know this should probably go in the jobs section, but I would appreciate a range of views on this...

I work in a pretty small company managing a team of 2 employees. Both women, both doing the same job on a scared caseload sort of arrangement. Without giving too much away, it is following up on leads which come in, so some days are busy, others are quieter, depending on what has been passed to them by other people. They can't generate their own work when it is quiet or duck it when it is busy, if that makes sense.

Colleague A has a 3 year old daughter and when she came back to work after ML wanted to work 1 day a week from home, which she does.
We are all aware that she doesn't get much work done on that day, but her work is generally done each week, so no one minds too much.

B doesn't have any children, but has come to me to ask if she can have the same arrangement - working 1 set day a week from home. My initial reaction was 'no', but she has challenged me on it.

Her argument is quite simple - if there is no impact on the business by A working from home, then there should be no impact on her working from home as well.
Or if there is an impact, she should get a payrise to reflect that she does more work.

I'm stumped! We have a one-man band HR here, but she is more admin for things like payroll so I won't get anything more than her opinion.

How do I respond to this? I think she has made a good point, but I don't want this to blow up into something bigger, and am worried it is indicative of a bigger issue between A&B.

Help!

Is their really a law that women with children have a right to flexibility in work over and above everyone else ???? What if someone is looking after elderly parents or has other responsibilities?

This thread highlights the lack of equality and opportunity in the workplace for dedicated employees.

My boss has just asked for my child's terms times. I'm not giving it as she's not giving me any flexibility when I'm giving company lots of flexibility and I'm producing alot more work far above my grade.

Why would sghe need to know my kid's term times when I'm given no flexibilty (and also cannot take leave when she's on leave as I have to cover for her - she doesn't cover for me and it means that I also have very little flexibility around my annual leave).

agree

let b have it, only fair

and have word with a , as if she is not working at home needs to be addressed . this might be pissing off b

I wouldn't give B the day off that A has. Presumably this is a temporary arrangement while A's child is young. Perhaps she doesn't get much done on her working from home day, but since all the work is being completed she may be working in the evening whilst her DD sleeps.

Yes, but why should B not have the same rights as A? Who is the employee to decide that A's life is more deserving of extra time that B's. That is the kind of thing that gives working mothers a bad name, tbh. Expecting concessions over and above male and childless colleagues.

B makes a bloody good point that if A working from home has an impact on the business then B should get paid more.

Give B the day working from home and performance manage A a bit more closely.

what in heck is a 'scared caseload'!

"AbsDuCroissant Fri 28-Jan-11 12:06:28
So legally speaking, if a parent requests that they work from home for say a day, to look after their child, that cannot be legally refused?
"

No - it can be refused, but it has to be considered and a business reason why not given. That is all the law requires, it does NOT say that any flexible working requirements must be agreed to!
Although at working from home and looking after a child!

giveitago

I'm confused, why does your boss want to know your DC's term times? What possible use is that to them?

Well I think we all pick up a bit for colleagues who have other things going on in their lives at that time, be that small children, elderly parents, illness, whatever. And then when it's our turn they will pick up for us.

If someone gets ill or their parent is taken ill that is unexpected and they need a bit of flexibility. But having a child and expecting a day off every week while your colleague takes up the slack is very,very different.

I have a lot of experience in this - I managed a team of workers partly based in the office, and partly in their homes.

The most important thing is ensuring consistency by measuring everyone's performance exactly the same way.

Give both A and B the same targets, and say that if the targets are not met, you will call them back to the office so you can help and monitor them.

Make it clear that you are prepared to be flexible to both of them, as long as the work gets done.

At the moment, you are letting your company down by allowing A not to concentrate on her job properly when she is out of the office.

You're also letting down A by not ensuring she is keeping up high standards in her career.

And your treatment of B, by saying 'no' without a reason is just unfair!

I expected high standards of both home and office workers. In general, people at home produced MORE than office workers - 20% more, in fact, and that is common in all industries, so if your worker is producing less at home, there is some sort of problem.

Maybe she is trying to look after the baby during 'your' time? Make it clear that, during working hours, she must ensure that someone else is caring for the baby. Explain it is not fair on the baby, or the company, to try to do both things at the same time - each is a full-time commitment!

It is not easy managing a team where some people are out of the office, but it is very rewarding because it is entirely possible to have satisfied employees, satisfied manager, and satisfied company. Your goal should be to get this perfect for everyone!

Lots of people in my office (men and women) wfh with their dc/school runs etc but our workload is our own so we are contracted to do a certain number of hours/have a certain amount of work and when we get it done is upto us - we have to be available all the time via email bu this can easily be achieved through your blackberry.

The bottom line is that for a lot of media industries in London if people/women were forced to always have childcare covering their wfh time then you couldnt afford to work as childcare costs in London are more than what media industries pay.

Equally our outsourced freelance work is done by people mostly with dc at home - thats why they are freelancers - we dont ask them what their childcare arrangements are -they just have to work around it - I dnt car as long as the work is back with me by the specified date.

It depends on the type of work and your expectations - if it doesn't matter when and where the work is done as long as it gets done well and deadlines are met etc, then I agree people's childcare arrangements should be their own business as long as they are producing acceptable results. However then you don't have much argument for not letting someone like 'B' have the same flexibility - if she can get all her work done by working super-efficiently for 4 days or working in the evening like 'A', why shouldn't she be able to do that?

On the other hand if it's the kind of job where it's important to have people in the office/available and working during normal office hours, then it was probably a big mistake letting 'A' have that arrangement in the first place...

If you are happy with the amount of work both A and B are doing, then I see no reason to not give B the same working conditions as A. This would be on the condition that the amount of work completed remains the same. A is probably working harder over 4 days, whereas B is spreading her work out, so she does more days but less work on each one. I wouldn't have a problem with that.

If you think that A is under productive because she is looking after her child instead of working, then you need to tell A that she can't work from home any more if she does not have childcare arrangements in place or stop the working from home.

You could agree to a trial period, to see if it impacts negatively on the business.

revolting - no idea why she wants to know term times - either to check up on any illnesses on my behalf (all of 4 days in 20 years including ds) OR she wants to be helpful;.

No idea at this stage but she's not getting it. Note my boss is very new to being a boss and the industry so she may be over doing the boss thing at the moment.

'Is their really a law that women with children have a right to flexibility in work over and above everyone else ???? What if someone is looking after elderly parents or has other responsibilities?

'

they werte looking at that but no idea what happened- carers of sn children got right to ask for flexi until a6 ages ago though afaik no common sn's self cure at 16 and parents of workers are not immune from disability (or anyone else they care for)

There was a testc ase though that said a carer can have thir rights included under DDA legislation so that was a start.

'If someone gets ill or their parent is taken ill that is unexpected and they need a bit of flexibility. But having a child and expecting a day off every week while your colleague takes up the slack is very,very different.

'

She said work outputs awere roughly qual so only slack is that inherent in working from home with no call divert surely?

AM presuming A works a lot harder than B if she is producing same amount in 4 days? Or otehrwise is significantly better at her job?

Becuase give or not give, if A is slacking at home then B wanting a pay rise for same output raises a lot of linked question about why her colleague can do same work in 4 days surely?

I'd be looking to make A actually work on the flexible day as its totally unfair to B. I would be really unhappy if doing the same job as another but having to actually work an extra day for the same pay.

Either give her the day at home (with little work being done like A), make A actually work on the flexible day and use childcare or give B a payrise and reduce the A down to 4 days a week in the office therefore only paying her for the actual work done.

HAppYMummy that could work

though if you get A to do the day at home as leave then she ahs a right to reduce her current out put by 20% no? Becuase ATM her output matches B.

However this depends a lot of office ethos: what matters most? is it actual hours or work output> If the foremr then take action; if the latter then they are OK no?

Much harder to work one day from home with a small child than to work one day from home with no children.

I know little about these sort of HR matters but it would seem very unfair if B did not also have the opportunity to work a day from home without any good reason.

You can't make these decisions based on an 'initial reaction'.

I think that you have to be fair, her point is logical and valid.

Sounds to me like the issue for B is that on the day where A is working from home B is picking up on A's calls and dealing with urgent queries alongside all her own work. I totally sympathise with that and I think it's only fair that B also gets the opportunity to work from home for a day, if only to catch up on the work missed when she's running around on behalf of A.

I have colleagues who work from home and I'll be honest and say I get sick and tired of spending half my day dealing with their phone calls. When you're in the same team it is very hard to just take messages - everyone expects you to be able to answer the queries even though it isn't your caseload. It really annoys me actually.

I could work from home but I don't, because even with DH at home looking after my young children I just know I would be distracted and not work as efficiently.

in my experience (being childless/infertile) childless women can be just as discriminated against as those with children can be.Neither is right, of course (in my book).
Most places i've worked at..expected to do more to cover for the ones with children who frequently being off when kids are sick/leaving early etc-they'd still get paid the same, so would i..for doing their share.
This woman has a valid point in my opinion.

giveitago If I were you, I'd ask her politely why she would like to know the term dates.

If she is that keen, she could find them out on the internet - but I can't see why on Earth they are relevant to her management of you. Perhaps she has just got you mixed up with someone else who does term-time working, or something like that?