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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Childless employee asking for flexible working

139 replies

sparechange · 28/01/2011 11:33

I know this should probably go in the jobs section, but I would appreciate a range of views on this...

I work in a pretty small company managing a team of 2 employees. Both women, both doing the same job on a scared caseload sort of arrangement. Without giving too much away, it is following up on leads which come in, so some days are busy, others are quieter, depending on what has been passed to them by other people. They can't generate their own work when it is quiet or duck it when it is busy, if that makes sense.

Colleague A has a 3 year old daughter and when she came back to work after ML wanted to work 1 day a week from home, which she does.
We are all aware that she doesn't get much work done on that day, but her work is generally done each week, so no one minds too much.

B doesn't have any children, but has come to me to ask if she can have the same arrangement - working 1 set day a week from home. My initial reaction was 'no', but she has challenged me on it.

Her argument is quite simple - if there is no impact on the business by A working from home, then there should be no impact on her working from home as well.
Or if there is an impact, she should get a payrise to reflect that she does more work.

I'm stumped! We have a one-man band HR here, but she is more admin for things like payroll so I won't get anything more than her opinion.

How do I respond to this? I think she has made a good point, but I don't want this to blow up into something bigger, and am worried it is indicative of a bigger issue between A&B.

Help!

OP posts:

flowery · 28/01/2011 12:02

I have a 3yo. I can return calls/emails to clients when I don't have childcare by plonking him in front of Fireman Sam and promising him chocolate if he doesn't disturb Mummy while she's on the phone.

But work a full day? Not on your nelly is that possible. No wonder B is fed up. Was A's flexible working request agreed on the basis that she wouldn't really be working when she's at home and would be looking after a child? Is she paid for a full day?

flowery · 28/01/2011 12:03

frgr your work is not harsh at all, no. No way I'd agree to someone 'working' while also looking after their kids and neither would any of my clients.

Ephiny · 28/01/2011 12:05

I'm also surprised to hear about someone working from home while looking after a 3 year old. At the companies I've worked for, if you were requesting work-from-home days you had to state on the form what your arrangements were for childcare, and it was very clear that you couldn't do both at once.

I feel the right to request flexible working shouldn't be restricted to parents, there are many other reasons someone might need or want flexibility, and singling out parents of young children as the only deserving ones just leads to resentment.

AppleAndBlackberry · 28/01/2011 12:05

Not sure why anyone agreed to her working at home and looking after a child at the same time - surely that's not possible? My work explicitly state that this is not allowed and everyone I know who works from home has childcare in place

AbsDuCroissant · 28/01/2011 12:06

So legally speaking, if a parent requests that they work from home for say a day, to look after their child, that cannot be legally refused?

I ask, because in my old role one person asked to work from home one day as her DC was sick, and the boss refused on grounds of "no one's able to work from home effectively" (what she actually meant was she, the boss, is not able to)

swanandduck · 28/01/2011 12:06

Where I used to work, teleworking was available but you had to still have the children looked after by someone else for the time you were paid to be working and had to have a separate room to work in ie not have computer and important files thrown around the living room table.

swanandduck · 28/01/2011 12:07

Also, there was no way it could be restricted to parents. Why should it be?

flowery · 28/01/2011 12:09

Abs - absolutely you can legally refuse a request to 'work' from home to look after a child. If someone wants to work from home so they have a shorter commute and can therefore use less childcare or whatever, or do school drop off, that's fine, but if they are supposed to be working it's reasonable to expect them to be doing exactly the same level of work and be just as available the employer as if they were in the office. Which means not looking after pre-schoolers at the same time!

flowery · 28/01/2011 12:10

If someone wants to stay at home an odd day because their DC is sick they are entitled to unpaid leave for that, or can agree to take holiday or whatever. There's no obligation for the employer to allow them to 'work' from home in those circumstances.

frgr · 28/01/2011 12:10

flowery, good to get some clear idea of what's normal then

i always thought the policy was quite fair and reasonable , tbh, so i was wondering if my idea of what was acceptable was potentially as harsh as my employers!

Takeresponsibility · 28/01/2011 12:12

So A does as much in 4 and a bit days as B does in 5 days. Doesn't B need to work harder?

TotemPole · 28/01/2011 12:13

Because the work is more-of-less caseload, B can't claim she is doing lots more work ie they both get through about the same number of cases per month give or take a few for complexity

So even though she doesn't do as much on her day at home, she's still covering the same amount of work over the month?

wannaBe · 28/01/2011 12:13

but A isn't working from home is she? She's being paid in order that she doesn't have to have paid childcare on that day - frankly, she's taking the piss.

So I would let b work from home and tell A that either she actually works when at home (her actual childcare arrangements are not of your concern just as long as she is putting in a full day) or she doesn't work from home any more.

ccpccp · 28/01/2011 12:14

Its the start of a slippery slope.

B isnt asking for a work from home day, shes asking for the day off that A is getting.

If it were my company, all work from home would be ended.

flowery · 28/01/2011 12:18

by TotemPole Fri 28-Jan-11 12:13:08

"Because the work is more-of-less caseload, B can't claim she is doing lots more work ie they both get through about the same number of cases per month give or take a few for complexity

So even though she doesn't do as much on her day at home, she's still covering the same amount of work over the month"

That's a fair point however unless the employees are in a job where pay is based on output, salary would and should be based on working hours. If they were both based in the office full time but one was more productive than the other, in most jobs the response would be to pay them the same basic salary and take steps to increase the productivity of one and/or possibly to reflect higher productivity in the other with pay increases/bonus if those things are available.

Unless it's purely output-based pay, if A isn't working 5 days she should be paid for 4 days a week.

Ciske · 28/01/2011 12:20

I work from home and my contract states very explicitly that I cannot have sole responsibility over a child during that time. It cannot be expected that someone who is watching a child will be as productive as someone who can focus exclusively on the job and, when push comes to shove, the child will always take precedent over your business and your customers. Do you genuinely feel this is a suitable arrangement or did you feel pressured into this?

I can see how every employee worries about wanting to do the right thing for working parents, but there are limits to what you have to allow and you definitely don't have to accept lower productivity for the same pay.

woahwoah · 28/01/2011 12:21

I think that B will probably get plenty of work done from home, so I see no reason why she shouldn't have the opportunity to try it, as you've already let A do it.

I think the problem is with employee A. If her working at home isn't really working, then you need to deal with that.

I don't think B is asking for a day off, as ccpccp seems to think; I think she wants the same flexibility (no commuting etc) that A wants - and that's fair enough.

mayorquimby · 28/01/2011 12:22

I think you've made a rod for your own back in the way it's just casually accepted that A doesn't really do her work on her day at home, so if I was the other employee I'd be pissed off as well.

stubbornhubby · 28/01/2011 12:23

i'm with B.

A is working a 4-day week with no loss of income. you gave her that because she asked for it. Now B is asking for it. good for her.

ceebeegeebies · 28/01/2011 12:24

Am that any company would agree to someone working from home 1 day a week whilst having their 3 year old at home aswell - basically she is having a paid day off every week

No wonder employee B is p*ssed off!!

My colleague spent a week working from home early last year due to the school being closed due to snow - that certainly raised a few eyebrows as to why that was allowed! (Although her children are 10/11 so I am guessing you would be able to get work done??)

cobbledtogether · 28/01/2011 12:25

I think the problem you have is that you've confused a flexible working policy with a home working policy.

I work in public sector and the lines are quite clear.

Flexible working includes...

Working reduced hours for reduced pay.
Working compressed hours - e.g. 35 over 4 days instead of 5.
Starting work early and finishing early or vice-versa.

The working from home policy is quite different and is for working only, not to look after a child.

If someone asks to be able to work from home the are expected to be able to show that they have done a comparable amount of work from home and it is only allowed for tasks that can be completed out of the office.

Working from home would not be permitted if they were looking after a child during the day as well.

The problem you have is that person A is getting 3 days pay for doing 2 days work and person B is, rightly, pissed off. You will need to sort it out with both of them.

swanandduck · 28/01/2011 12:26

I agree with mayor and stubborn. If A is being allowed to work a bit more productively for four days and then have a fifth day at home, then why should B not ask for the same concession??

ccpccp · 28/01/2011 12:29

Why would B do plenty of work from home, if A does no work from home and still gets paid woahwoah?

B isnt stupid. If you read between the lines of her argument shes saying 'give me a pay rise or give me the day off like A'

altinkum · 28/01/2011 12:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bruffin · 28/01/2011 12:32

"no-one "works" when they are looking after a 3 year old surely?
"

I managed it from the dd was born when DS was 2. He did go to nursery a few days a week but dd didn't go until she was 2 and I worked through school holidays etc.
I did a lot of work late into the night when dcs were asleep. It was my employers idea that I worked from home when I got pregnant. Interestly I always found the men far more accomodating of me working from home than the women.

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