Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6

Original poster

Childless employee asking for flexible working

139 replies

sparechange · 28/01/2011 11:33

I know this should probably go in the jobs section, but I would appreciate a range of views on this...

I work in a pretty small company managing a team of 2 employees. Both women, both doing the same job on a scared caseload sort of arrangement. Without giving too much away, it is following up on leads which come in, so some days are busy, others are quieter, depending on what has been passed to them by other people. They can't generate their own work when it is quiet or duck it when it is busy, if that makes sense.

Colleague A has a 3 year old daughter and when she came back to work after ML wanted to work 1 day a week from home, which she does.
We are all aware that she doesn't get much work done on that day, but her work is generally done each week, so no one minds too much.

B doesn't have any children, but has come to me to ask if she can have the same arrangement - working 1 set day a week from home. My initial reaction was 'no', but she has challenged me on it.

Her argument is quite simple - if there is no impact on the business by A working from home, then there should be no impact on her working from home as well.
Or if there is an impact, she should get a payrise to reflect that she does more work.

I'm stumped! We have a one-man band HR here, but she is more admin for things like payroll so I won't get anything more than her opinion.

How do I respond to this? I think she has made a good point, but I don't want this to blow up into something bigger, and am worried it is indicative of a bigger issue between A&B.

Help!

OP posts:

AbsDuCroissant · 28/01/2011 11:45

I agree (I should though - I'm on a slightly flexible working arrangement and am childless).

If, she managers her workload and everything is covered - why shouldn't she be able to work from home? Obviously, there are people who are unable to work properly/effectively outside of the office, but if someone is able to - give them the option.

I personally find on my arrangement (I arrive earlier and leave earlier on one day) I get TONS done during the morning I'm in early, as there's fewer things going on and practically no one around, so I can really concentrate and get things done.

And, even though I have this arrangement I had feedback from two bunches of people I work with this week that they're impressed at how quickly I deal with issues that come up

ramonaquimby · 28/01/2011 11:46

if your think A isn't really doing much from home on her 'working day' you need to challenge her on that

seperate from the issue B has raised

Kewcumber · 28/01/2011 11:46

I assume the caseload is shared rather than "scared"

mackereltaitai · 28/01/2011 11:47

I think you need legal advice, but that you probably should allow B the request. However, I think that for both employees you need to think what the company's bottom line is in terms of performance on home working days, and make that clear to both. What if A comes to you and says she would now like another day at home a week, and you haven't taken any official notice of the fact that her rate of work drops while she's away from the office? Incidentally, who picks up the slack while A is away with lower productivity - is it B? Has that been officially noted? if so, A needs to know that she will be expected to pick up any slack on B's day at home.

ChippingInSmellyCheeseFreak · 28/01/2011 11:48

'Nobody minds too much' - I'd say that maybe for the first year nobody minded too much but her child is now 3**, I suspect everyone will be starting to mind quite a lot when she isn't as productive as they are, but is getting paid the same as B and the same as she would be if she was in the office 5 days not 4... either they need to be allowed to be more flexible, her flexibility needs to be stopped (if you can?) or she needs to be more productive... at least you have choices [bgrin]

** unless she's lost a baby after this one, then she's been back 2 years now surely.

RevoltingPeasant · 28/01/2011 11:48

Indeed, emsy.

I am an academic and although I don't like working at home myself that much, because I always find housework MN to do instead of work, many of my colleagues actually only come in on days when they are teaching.

All their prep, marking, and research/ grant-writing they do at home. This is because they don't get anyone knocking on their doors or expecting them to 'just take 5 minutes to look at my essay' etc. In fact most people in my dept have fully kitted out studies at home for this purpose ().

Why do you think B will not be productive at home? Or do you just like having her physically in the office?

flowery · 28/01/2011 11:50

Do you know why A isn't productive? Is she watching Jeremy Kyle or trying to save childcare costs by 'working' and looking after her 3yo simultaneously?

giveitago · 28/01/2011 11:50

Same conditions for each as long as it doesn't impact on the business imo.

I'm in the opposite position - just taken part time job in a company that's all over the plcae - way too much flexible working with none of it monitored yet my boss is very hard on me re my hours - she doesn't want me to get any time off in lieu in all (the first place I've worked at that has it) - fine - then manage my workload better so I don't need to do overtime which I'm managing with no notice and I have a kid.

I arrived at work to a mess (not mine)- I had to help out and I accrued a bit of time of in lieu - she wanted me me to take work home (ie be flexible) and I said fine (it would impact badly on my ie i'd have to do it after about 10pm) but it will have to be time off in lieu (only insisting as EVERYONE else takes it) -and not payment (as it really screws up my tax credit) and she's not happy - so I'm not entitled to my contractual benefits. Annoying and unfair (my company is an extreme example of bad working models) and as I'm the hardest worker there.

So I'd say - flexibility is great as long as it doesn't impact negatively on the company. Reward highly productive staff with some flexibility.

FindingStuffToChuckOut · 28/01/2011 11:51

well legally you are obliged to offer the parent flexiable working. Don't know if you have the same obligation to the non-parent?

frgr · 28/01/2011 11:51

i think your childless colleague would be right to be angry about this setup.

quite aside from the legal aspects where the mum has a protected right to ask for working from home, purely from a fair treatment/motivation POV the real issue that needs to be addressed is the mum who you feel isn't pulling her weight on her day off. so rather than prevent childless lady from having the same flexibility, you should either address how/why the existing setup isn't working, or grant this flexibility to your childless employee too.

just because someone doesn't have young children doesn't mean to say they are without comittments that are just as important. one of my colleagues is massively involved in events at her local church. or you could have a childless employee looking after an ill relative or elderly parent - just as good a reason to request flexible working arrangments e.g. with no commute, or something.

Quenelle · 28/01/2011 11:51

TBH if you think B will be just as productive and hardworking from home one day a week why not let her? It would be worth the goodwill if she's a valued employee.

DH works from home one day a week and looks after DS. His company knows he doesn't get much done within business hours but allows it because he will work early morning, evening and at the weekend instead. I actually think they are being incredibly accommodating.

jasminetom · 28/01/2011 11:51

I agree with her, why shouldn't she get the same benefits? She's more likely to get the work done as well, not having a child demanding her constant attention.

Original poster

sparechange · 28/01/2011 11:52

Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only one to think she has a good point with this!

I think the problem will be selling the idea to my bosses. A's working from home was partly a compromise agreement because they weren't prepared to have her back part time.

Because the work is more-of-less caseload, B can't claim she is doing lots more work ie they both get through about the same number of cases per month give or take a few for complexity

I think the issue is more that we need to have people in the office to answer the calls and take queries should they arise, and by them both having a day at home, that leaves 3 days a week they'll only be 1 person to do that.

Not B's 'fault' per se, but the reality the business would be left with. A's arrangement was partly agreed to on the basis that there will still be 2 people in the office, so it wouldn't impact that much.

But I think this is something I need to take up with the powers that be, although I suspect they'll point out A has a stronger legal position to be asking (and therefore getting) flexibility. And I think they would worry about the precedent it might set for everyone to ask for flexible working/days working from home.

OP posts:

Original poster

sparechange · 28/01/2011 11:54

Flowery, she has her 3yo with her on her working-from-home day
I think it was more about not wanting her in nursery full-time than a cost thing...

OP posts:

mackereltaitai · 28/01/2011 11:54

Mm. Is there a technical solution wrt taking calls? Could some calls be routed to home numbers, or is there a confidentiality issue if that happens?

Aitch · 28/01/2011 11:56

nightmare. you have to give her a pay rise, then, imo. fair's fair. she will be spending more just to get into the office to answer the phones for you.

Kewcumber · 28/01/2011 11:57

no-one "works" when they are looking after a 3 year old surely?

Aitch · 28/01/2011 11:57

i can't believe anyone would have the cheek to say they were working from home with a child there, tbh. i work from home, and can only start to be productive when the children are in childcare or in bed. other than that, it's snatched admin.

frgr · 28/01/2011 11:58

"her 3yo with her on her working-from-home day"

I'm surprised the FW request was granted if you knew about this?

at my work (hardly a fore front of great HR policy, i'll admit) they wouldn't grant this, that you were looking after toddler whilst working, there would have to be childcare arrangements in place... is my work quite harsh?

minibmw2010 · 28/01/2011 11:58

I would assume that so long as they aren't both off on the same day then its fine and fair. B clearly has a day where she's responsible for all the calls on her own, there's no reason why A shouldn't have the same situation. So long as one of them are there, why does it matter if the other isn't.

KnittedBreast · 28/01/2011 12:00

whats the problem with her having flexible working? sounds like you are trying to be difficult. you are entitled to request flexible working hours for any reason you like, including gold on firday afternoons. if it dousnt affect your business yabu

Deliaskis · 28/01/2011 12:00

Hmmm...A has the right to ask for the flexible conditions, B doesn't, but you are not obliged to grant either if it doesn't suit the needs of the organisation, and it is very unfair to say B's request would be causing issues when A's doesn't. Either you need x number of people in the office or you don't. Whether A or B have children is really irrelevant.

I know the law only entitles those with children to request flexible working, but I think this should be changed too. Children are not the only responsibilities and/or obligations people might have and it is IMO unfair to discriminate in this way.

Tangle · 28/01/2011 12:01

As I understand the legal situation (from looking at DirectGov), A has a statutory right to ask for flexible working and to have that request considered. B does not have a statutory right to ask, so you do not HAVE to give it consideration if you don't want to. Whether that is fair or not is a different question.

Its unfortunate that A doesn't seem to do much on her "work from home" day, and that could well lead to resentment. Does A work longer hours on the days she's in? Do you have any way of measuring productivity that shows that her working from home isn't having a negative impact on the business? It does seem as though A is taking the piss a bit with "working" from home - and in such a small organisation its not surprising B's getting fed up. Would compressed hours suit A better?

How much is B worth to you as an employee? At the end of the day, you are not obliged to consider her request - but if she is feeling hard done by then is she likely to walk? Rightly or wrongly the situation regarding the legal right to request flexible working is different for A and B - but in a small company that does have the potential to lead to quite a lot of ill feeling.

How much effort has B put into her request? Has she explained why she wants to work from home one day a week? Has she considered potential impact on the business and what can be done to mitigate that impact?

If B has a good business case for how her working at home one day a week is going to be neutral/good for the company, what's the disadvantage in trying it if it makes for a happier employee?

I do think, though, that whatever measure you use to determine whether working at home is appropriate for B should be applied to A as well - if you'll stop B's work at home day for being unproductive, how can you justify letting A carry on when she doesn't get much done on that day?

Deliaskis · 28/01/2011 12:01

PS agree that A's not achieving very mcuh on her WFH days is a separate issue, but should be addressed, you can't look after a child all day and work effectively too, if you could everybody would do it all week!

TotemPole · 28/01/2011 12:02

If they have different days at home then that wouldn't happen.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6