to consider single sex schooling

[deliakate]

Have one boy and a little girl on the way, and it looks like we are going to choose single sex prep schools for both (although DS would be co-ed from age 3-4) under this arrangement. Am I mad???

Im all for single sex schools at secondary level. Primary not so much....

Il definatly be sending mine to seconday single sex schools

I went to a girls' school from age 7 to 15, then a mixed (but predominantly boys) sixth form. I don't remember huge amounts of bitchiness or bullying - but maybe that's just me.

Boys did seem like a bit of an alien species, specially since I didn't have any brothers. It did mean that when the hormones hit we didn't have boys around to distract us at school, though I have to say that when I got to the sixth form, I didn't have any trouble controlling myself around all the spotty, self-important and immature boys in my classes...

DS moved to a single-sex school for year 7, and loves it (so far). We didn't choose it specifically because it was single sex, but it was a plus rather than a negative.

One advantage is that it seems far more acceptable for boys to get involved in subjects and extra-curricular activities that would probably be girl-dominated in mixed schools - art, languages, drama, cooking competitions, iceskating lessons etc. Likewise, I've heard that in girls-only secondaries, girls are more likely to take (and do well in) subjects like hard sciences and maths which can be seen as 'boys' subjects' at mixed schools.

Also, these days most single-sex secondary schools seem to make more of an effort to encourage interaction with the opposite sex from early on - not just the discos from age 14 or 15 that we had. DS regularly has activities scheduled with one of the local girls' schools, and of course they are all in touch with each other via facebook etc, so girls aren't such an alien species for him.

I don't see so many advantages at primary level though.

Oh - and I second what HerBeX said in her last paragraph - in the end your decision should come down to the overall quality and feel of the individual school, not just the mixed/single-sex issue. That was certainly how it worked when I was choosing DS's secondary school.

I think we are all governed by our own experiences here.

I think a good co-ed independent school will encourage kids to follow their talents wherever they lie. I certainly haven't seen any evidence of a gender divide in subject terms.

Personally, I am put off girls schools because every one I visited made this huge thing about the girls becoming 'strong, independent, academically successful women.' Also, the boys schools seemed amazing if you were a very bright, confident, rugby playing success. It just seemed so narrow to me. I also think the single-sex indie schools breed an arrogance which is less noticable in the co-ed schools.

But again, this is my experience. You need to make your own choice based on what you are looking for.

Just to add, I have a DS and two DDs. My DD1 is only 5yrs and is already a strong, independent and academically successful. Ver bright, very confident. I just don't want that to be the extent of her education. Her pastoral and citizenship education is far more important to me. I'm not paying for her to come out with 5 A* Alevels.

Cora, I think you've just put into words how I feel about it.

I went to a very academic all girls grammar, and yes, academic achievement was everything. I think the situation is 100% more intense nowadays.

I want a school that encourages intelligence, responsibility and sociability as well as sports and studying.

But, that's me. And also, depending on area there aren't many co-ed private schools.

Both mine went to single-sex comprehensives. It was one thing among many that I took into consideration when I was looking at schools, along with academic results, pastoral care, general ambience etc. It wasn't a hard decision as the local mixed state schools were very poor.

It's been good for DD who is quiet and studious but I'm looking forward to DS going to a mixed 6th form. He's quite arty and has had trouble at times with what seems to be a macho ethos at his school.

I went to an all girls all boarding school and I loved it, as did my mother and her mother ect... In fact when the DD's go they will be fifth generation.

It didn't stop any of us having boyfriends/ meeting boys, and those were honestly the funnest 7 years of my life. We definitely stayed children whilst in school, and there were no pressures to look nice/have make up on during the week.
DH also went a single sex school and his experiences were the same as mine.

I would say go for it, as long as the school has a decent pastoral system then they will have a fab fab time.

DD2 (now 13yo) is at a single-sex secondary school. It wouldn't have been my first choice of environment (both her older siblings, DS and DD1 are at a co-ed school) but she chose it and it very very happy there. It is a very academic and open-minded environment where she does all the things she wants to d without the annoying presence of boys. The school is very attuned to how girls are and how they learn and it seems to be the perfect environment for her. I don't know whether she will stay there in the 6th form (again, her decision when we get there), but so far she is managing to grow up in a non-judgmental, feminist environment where she is not expected to "perform" for the boys (which does happen at the co-ed school- lots of bleach blonde hair and make-up). I think you have to decide on the environment to suit the child.

I teach in an all boys secondary (co-ed in 6th form) and I really like the fact that the boys (in comparison to the mixed school I used to teach at) are so much more relaxed about being "little boys" for a bit longer.The Y7-8 are still mostly into silly card games or toys or whatever and seem uninterested in the whole issue of girls and girlfriends until much later. In class there is a little more humour revolving around farts and if you don't understand football many of their conversations seems incomprehensible but I think they do really well out of it educationally. As most others have said though, its what suits your child.

Well having had boys at both singlesex and coed at prep school, I think that it can make a huge difference even then to be honest.

The main difference with boys-only schools tends to be the sheer amount of sport on offer, and the male staff to go with it. Even in reception the boys had sport at least 4 days a week, all with specialist teachers. By the time they reached the age of 9 or 10 a good number are playing at county level (and therefore receiving all the extra training and coaching that means that they will probably stay there).

Also, when you go into the school, all of the artwork and written work on display is done by boys. One of the things we noticed looking at some of the local co-ed schools was how girls written work seemed to dominate the displays.

Typically you will find that there are "sister" schools in the area (not necessarily co-owned), and the schools are obviously aware that parents will be doing more than one school run and therefore have drop-off/pick-up times that work for that area. As we're mainly taling about the private sector, no decent school would make so obvious a mistake as to mean that they would lose parents who have a child of the opposite gender, though I have to say that age-gap also makes a difference.

The only thing that I think that you may be being unreasonable in, is deciding on a school before the child is born. Even though I have 2 boys, my youngest was always going to be happier in a co-ed environment as he really enjoys playing with girls, whereas my older one is thriving on playing rugby at school 5 days this week.

I suspect that any difference in the end academic results at prep level is marginal, other than of course prep schools tend to go to 13 for boys but only 11 for girls. The other difference that the mother of b/g twins noticed was the the boy was taught to read first, whereas the girls was writing almost before she was reading. But by 11 everything had evened out.

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ladymuck, I think your post illustrates why it needs to come down to chosing the school that's right for your child. DS is not at all sporty apart from swimming which he loves. He tolerates rugby and football but he'd hate to be in an environment where sport was so heavily weighted in the curriculum.

Sorry about that. DD2 playing with the keyboard. I thought I'd already started then it disappeared.

Absolutely Cora. Some children will thrive anywhere, but for most I think that it is positive to find a school that plays to their individual strengths. As I have 2 very different children I am therefore stuck with 2 school runs.

I don't understand the idea that single sex school are all jsut about A* and academic results.

The massive benefit of my single sex school, was that it put us, the girls, at the centre of everything. For the only time in the life of most females, everything is geared towards their needs and their education and they are not expected to behave in response or opposition or complement, to boys and men. They are just themselves. So they come out of school expecting to be treated as full human beings rather than adjuncts to men. That to me, is the real benefit of a girl's school, not the A level results.

My mum was a matron at a girls' secondary school, so the pupils there got little contact with boys. She said it made them all terribly socially naive, and often once they had left school they had shocking problems with mature interaction with males. (Most of the teachers there were female, and as it was a boarding school there weren't male siblings or other relatives to balance things out.) An extreme example, but it pushed my mum into sending my sister and I to a co-ed school. Although I think boys were a distraction at that stage, it was a stage of social learning too, not just jumping through academic hoops and being handed pieces of paper as a reward.

I agree with HerBex, my DD loves her all girl secondary school, but some of the girls who also went to the primary school are a bit 'boy mad' even at 12.

If you are lucky enough to be able to choose a school, you have to base it on what suits your child so need to wait until they are 3 or so before making a decision, I think.

HerBeX, you say, 'For the only time in the life of most females.' That seems a strange thing to say as if real life dictates that their lives should revolve around their partners and therfore these few years of focus just on them is vital.

In real life my daughters will need to compete with boys for jobs. I want her schooldays to prepare her for this not be some long held nostalgia of jolly hockey sticks and camaraderie which she fondly remembers when she's the other end of the country playing wife.

Maybe I read your post wrong but I don't think a girl need a single-sex schooling to value herself as an equal human being.

If my son grows up thinking her wife is an 'adjunct' rather than an equal partner in his marriage then I will definitely have failed him as a mother.

I remember that many were boy mad and there was terrible pressure to have a 'boy friend', it seemed to miss out the stage where boys were just friends.

Cora,HerBex was referring to herself, so maybe things have changed but I was certainly not treated as 'equal' to my brothers at home, and DD is the only female on the weekends at her dad's so gets plenty of time to practise competing with boys!

Hmm, as I said earlier I think we're all coming at this based on our own experiences. It probably isn't at all helpful to the OP who needs to decide based on her own children and their needs.

Also, however we fudge around the issue, different parents want different things from a school. There is no, one, right answer otherwise we'd all be competing for the same school or they'd all offer the same thing.

It's not about your mothering Cora, it's about the way society is organised.

The workplace is organised by men around men, except in very unusual circumstances.

And actually, most women do still organise their lives around their partners - who gives up work, downshifts, goes part time etc., because the other party's wage is higher and it makes sense? Who is more likely to give up their job in order to move area or country because of their DP's job? It's not men.

That's why I think it can be a really positive thing for girls to be educated in an environment where everything revolves around them, rather than them having to slot in with a group who is automatically deemed to be more important than them. I think mixed schools can teach girsl very early, that they are less important than boys and what boys think of them, is more importnat than what they think of themselves and of boys.

I'm not saying that's inevitable or even the majority experience, I just think it's worth discussing and being aware of.

Yanbu go for it!

Yanbu go for it!