to object to italian mil's comments

[earthling]

i live in northern italy and have a 4 month old baby with my italian husband...my mil started to call me fatty when i was pregnant to which i objected after the nth time of her saying it so i thought she'd got the message loud and clear only for her to say something quite hideous when i was 7 months pregnant when we were at a restaurant. a rather obese unattractive woman walked in and my mil asked whether i was eyeballing her coz she reminded me of myself (!?) my dh was sat next to me and heard but didnt react which has since been a source of countless arguments...she saw my crestfallen expression and laughed at me. she hung up on dh when he finally got round to asking her about it (2 weeks later!) so i avoided her for the rest of my pregnancy. when my baby was born she came to the hospital and remarked that she'd never have thought someone like me would have made such a lovely baby (ha bloody ha)...ive since decided i just dont want anything more to do with her and dh takes the baby round to see her once a week....is this simply cultural difference territory to be tollerated by me (as dh asserts) or a nasty person with issues (shes 90 kg) to be avoided from now on?

yeah but one things offensive comments re body size wich are awful of course but anothers when youre pregnant...how can it ever be acceptable to make hurtful comments re appearence to a pregnant woman?? but now im the one painted as the villain of the piece coz i dont wanto see mil anymore which effectively means i dont see any of dh's family seeing as meeting place for all is her place. but she's never made any attempt to apologise properly to me since all this has been drawn to her attention...i was actually willing to give her another chance til the hospital comment..cant help thinking that if any of my family had been present she'd have kept shtum..

Ach, she'll never apologise.

Send dp to her house with the baby, and you rest on the sofa and watch the telly while they're gone. After mine told me I couldn't go back to England ever again (dd was 5 weeks old) and I walked out, that's what I do.

You get out of all interminable family parties as well. T'is great.

Seriously, though, dh has to defend you to his mother, and stick up for you when she gets abusive. Not saying he has to fall out with her, (although mine has done that many times over the years when her mouth runs away with her, but I've never asked him to) Don't stoop to her level. Do not call her to him. (call her to us )

"but now im the one painted as the villain of the piece coz i dont wanto see mil anymore"

Yeah, that'll happen, the blood is thicker blah blah blah and "she's old, you must accept, forgive, try again, ad infinitum..." is the order of the day even from the more sympathetic.

"..cant help thinking that if any of my family had been present she'd have kept shtum"

Yeah, there is a tendency to be a bit more careful around DILs if their own family are on hand in the immediate area and can be counted on to come roaring out in defense.

My MIL has always managed to be a lot more careful around SIL, despite her mental health challenges, cos she knows SIL's mum will be over breathing fire if she pulls the same shit on her.

Any chance of moving at least a couple of villages away ? Cos this stuff puts one hell of a strain on a marriage.

And do you have RL expat bubble support ? Just so you get a breather ?

i just wonder whats the deal with these italian mils?? my ex's mum was a total battleaxe and loathed me but only made this obvious when he wasnt around...she'd blank me in the street or literally grunt at me in "greeting" when i was alone yet when i was with him she'd be sickly sweet..thenshe'd lie to him when he asked her about her behaviour or just lock herself in the bathroom so's not to haveto explain herself..i'd vowed never to have another italian partner so's to never ever have an italian mil again then i meet my dh who seemed different and his mother i only met like three times before we got spliced so i didnt actually know her that well til these comments began..im seriously thinkin its best to bugger off back to blighty to avoid all this stress as i cant help thinkin this has chucked a huge spanner in the works for my dh and i and thing'll get worse as baby grows up and starts wondering why his mummy doesnt see his nonna..or even worse she starts making nasty comments to him too

Oh yes, my MIL thinks my Mum is lurvely, (despite having met her once and then forbidding me to ever see her again ) She's always telling SIL that it's a shame I'm not "delicata" like my Mum

sarah we live in bologna a few streets away from her actually love the area as my best friend lives close by and can hotfoot it over there when i need a breather...so tis a dilemma

Reading your last post. I wouldn't worry about your son tbh. What's important is that he has a normal relationship with his nonna. Dp occasionally tries to use that one with me...."but what will you tell her when she asks????" My view is that she'll work it out for herself, her older grandchildren are under no illusion as to what a loop she is.

I'm also under no illusion that one day MIL herself will open her copious gob and say something to dd about me. That will be the day when she'll really wish he'd never met me.

My XMIL wants me dead (has stated this) She isn't Italian. I just think your MIL is a bitch tbh.

Bucharest it destroys me every time my XMIL says something about me to dd. Especially as everyone takes it as evidence of me being unreasonable when I object to what she says.

"im seriously thinkin its best to bugger off back to blighty to avoid all this stress as i cant help thinkin this has chucked a huge spanner in the works for my dh and i and thing'll get worse as baby grows up and starts wondering why his mummy doesnt see his nonna"

_

Well the ritual of "packing my bags if you can't stand up to mamma" was well practiced in my house. and many others all over town. Sometimes the blokes need a real bucket of cold water to wake them up and how are we supposed to compete with the hysterics on the others side if we stick to reasonable discussions ? It's always going to make us look like the best person to disappoint cos there are fewer fireworks.

Although for god sakes don't tell him you are going if you really do want to leave with the baby. Cos they can stop you leaving the country with a mini Italian if papa won't give permission for you to take him.

I will say though love, small babies are hard work, more so if you are far from home, dealing with MIL and feeling let down by your husband.

I see nothing wrong with letting him know how unhappy you are in a more Mediterranean style than you have thus far, but once the baby grows a bit you'll probably feel a lot less vulnerable, so consider hanging in there a while yet.

Do you have any friend's in the area ? This whole thing become utterly unbearable when you are isolated.

Oh and your kid won't be the only one with a mother who avoids Nonna at all costs, it really is more common than you think. Don't forget this is the country where "MIL" is an accepted named motive of divorce (=

I don't understandwhy you are ok with dh taking ds round to see her. she is being rewarded for her nastiness with just what she wants - she has dh (to bitch to about you, he won't be arguing) and ds a- and you don't exist. That's perfect for her. What happens when ds is old enough to understand her talking disparagingly about you whilst you are not there and he notices his dad is not defending you at all. I think she should be coming to your house if she wants to see ds and the minute she treats you badly, she'dget a glass of wa ter thrown in her face frankly till she get the message: Come over if you can behave normally or stay away.

Bucharest, wtf? What was her idea telling your boss you are a whore to try and get you sacked?! Was this before you and dh were married or settled together, likea last ditch attempt to getyou away from her son?

yes I agree with sarah, step up the mediterranean touch a bit

Earthling,

Well if you like the area I'd stay, and really do lean on the friend's.

I'd bet good money that the bulk of the people saying "oh you know it's bad that DIL won't go round to MIL" can actually see the contrast and do understand why you don't find her company that enticing.

And read this to see if there are any tips from thos on the "inside tract", if nothing else it will remind you are not alone, in fact maybe get husband to read it, cos I do sometime wonder if they think it's only their wife who has an "issue".

mostrodisuocera.splinder.com/

ohh and we can all do this quiz and compare our MIL types

www.alfemminile.com/carriere/bellemere/bellemere1.asp

If she said that to me when she was 90kg I'd have said, least mine's a baby what's your excuse?

Zen- before we had dd, we were already living together though. It's not just me, she's done it to all her 6 children's partners. The idea was the school sack me, and I fuck off back to the UK leaving her baby alone.

Earthling- yes, if it does get to the point of leaving, you mustn't do a runner. A very good friend of mine had to stay in Italy for 12 mths after separating from her husband to get all the paperwork above board. She's now very happily living with her children in the UK though

Tbh, this is rife in Italian families even when there isn't a furriner around. As I said, all dp's siblings have had the same thing, and in most of the SILs/BILs families too. They make me laugh tbh, I've lost count of people who tell me how cold and horrid we Brits are, for moving away from our mothers whereas the family is all here. Only out of duty is it though. I speak more to my Mother in a week than I imagine dp has to his in the last 20 yrs, despite him going "home" for his dinner every day. His mother works herself into a frenzy every Sunday morning rounding up the family for the obligatory Sunday lunch gathering. And gets herself hospitalised if they don't all turn up. (this Christmas was the first time in 8 yrs she hasn't had herself taken into hospital on NY eve, just to make all her children guiltily flock to her malingering bedside)

yes sarah i have friends but its all about my relationship with dh at end of day..if he didnt, doesnt, wont defend me and stand up to her ive serious doubts re future and bringing up baby together in harmonious way as can feel anger returning when he takes baby there and she does the nice nonna schtick coz she didnt give a flying one about baby when he was in utero else she wouldnt have stressed me like that when i was preg...dont want my son to be coopted into their dysfunctional, unreconstructed weirdness and she's already asking when she can babysit apparently which is NOT gonna happen..i strart teaching again next week in the evenings and i know she'll get dh to take baby round there when im out..

juneybean didnt react to her hideous comment as was literally BAMBOOZLED by it and overheating in 35 celsius no air con restaurantand on verge of fainting...had only gone to bloody dinner in first place to do my duty for dh

I think in many of these cultures (especially the older generation) they just say things outright in a way we would never do it in the UK (she probably is an old bat though). Isn't it the norm in some cultures for the DIL to mould to the husbands family with the MIL being the matriach and in control? I've seen this similar thing in Asia with chinese family dynamics - they also think nothing of telling you you fat and to our ears can be downright rude.

"she's already asking when she can babysit "

Oh god, nothing for it other than to say "when she can learn to behave in a manner that I see as a good role model for my child"

Which in many cases means NEVER.

Does your husband know how close you are to seeing the marriage as doomed ?

When you try to talk to him what is the dynamic\tone ?

sarah hes so in denial its bizarre he reckons shes not a bad person just tactless but then will contradict himself by saying they were harmless comments etc so he doesnt seem too clear minded on the issue at all...cant help thnkin tho the main bone of contention is between his mum and him as hes never known his biological father; doesnt even know his name in fact as theyve NEVER talked about it..his mum only told him his stepdad wasnt his real dad when he was 14 and coz they were constantly arguing so she basically told him not to bother as wasnt his real dad...im quite strong personality and maybe she saw in me a threat..whatever the motivations she succeeded in distancing me from their family by being so offensive..so when i try to talk to him he brings up the drawbridge and refuses to even acknowledge shes a rude, insensitive person OR that she had it in for me which for me are the only 2 reasons for her behaviour. HE says i should give her another chance

I don't know maybe it can all be resolved. Am not great at this type of thing personally.

If not, maybe you need to make it clear to dh just how serious an issue this is for youand that sweeping it under the carpet is not going to work for you.

Hope you can sort things out. Must be very difficult for you overseas with a baby and all this crap too.

how is this other chance supposed to look, according to your husband? What does he expectyou to do?

Of course he loves his family and doesn't want to be alienated from them. Of course he loves his mum and wants to be loved by her but this isn't working out. Make it very clear to him that the way it is, it isn't going to continue, so what options are there?

Sometimes I find (sorry wild generalisation) that men need clear instructions as to what you expect not vague "I'm not happy about this" statements. So more "when this happens, I expect you to react like this" or whatever. This is not to say they jump to do your bidding but they seem to like a clarity as to what exactly you expect them to do.

Just generalising from my own (limited) experience, such as it is. Make 2-3 clear short demands. And see what he does.

"HE says i should give her another chance"

He needs to know that his own chances are dwindling, based on how unhappy you sound.

Time to play this med style

ie (you'll need to tailor it to your own DH's weak spots) think something along these lines....

I am your punto di riferimento, yes ?

Well, she is old, she will die and when that happens you will be ALONE with no female to orbit because I'll be long gone, having lost all respect for you as a man, a lover and a father.

I have a family who miss me and would give much to see their grandchild everyday, who are heartbroken and outraged at the DISGUSTINGLY inhospitable way your family are treating me and the DISGUSTING way you are failing to be man enought to protect and cherish your wife.

So what motivation do I have to stay here, when I can have people who will love, care for and defend me around me all day every day ?

Do you really believe that being loved and respected so little that I am asked to sopportare e basta as a lifestyle, is motivation NOT to take my child and run away from your country, so I can raise him in a loving environment where he learns that a mother's love is consideration and compromise, instead of subjugation and manipulation ?

What is the benefit for me, for my child, to live here with you, as your very last priorities, no matter the sacrifices I make each day, by being so far from home and the people who love me PROPERLY ?

Currently nothing.

And each day my love for you dies a little more. You can revive it, but there is not much time before it becomes a terminal case.

I know you feel pulled down the middle, but I am not the one who decided to play a game of tug of war with your heart and loyalty. I would NEVER had chosen to make it hard for you to enjoy a good realtionshipo with your mother merely for the sake of demonstrating to her how i can flex my muscles. Because I don't see you as a puppet, you are my love, I could never hurt you that way.

And this I can prove, becuase I am the one willing to go, to avoid you being torn in two.

I was not the one who made it case of having to chose. But since she has decided this is the way it must be, well then you have to decide and if you can't, I will, for all our sakes. Because I cannot go on watching all of us exhausted and constantly damaged from dancing to the tune she plays.

_

and other just as heavy hitting "playing MIL at her own game" mix of honesty and "arm waving style" stuff to round it out.

I found writing something like the above in a letter helped, to even up the unlevel language playing field and to give him time to absorb what i was saying rather than just try to brush past it for the sake of winning\getting away from the current row. It can also be reread giving the weight of the message time to be absorbed and understood. It gave him time to think in a heat free context and to face up to the fact that this was not a case of "six of one, half a dozen of another" but a scenario of his mother's making.

And it worked.

You can win this love, but you can't win ONLY with our rules, you have to engage with her communication strategies and his weak spots too.

Go Med Style with extra added Brit Grit. Speak her language when using your cultural strengths and combine the best of both world's to fight your corner.

and a (((big fat hug)))))) cos been there, bought that Tshirt and came very close to strangling both MIL and DH with it.

Oh and keep the letter, so you can batter him over the head with it if when any backsliding takes place. Saves time.

There is also an element of distrust when "your precious son marries a foreigner". I am Italian and had this loads from my very British MIL. When I was pregnant, all 4 times, she turned into a monster and said some very hurtful things to me. They were always said in that sarcastic way so could always be written off as a "joke" and my DH never ever took my side or had words with her. It caused immense rows between us at the time.

In the years she has come to accepted me and we get along fine now, although we don't see each other loads. I think there was a lot of "us and them" at first.

I remember the first couple of years in every conversation she kept saying "we do things like this in this country, don't you know" - even though I had lived in the UK 14 years before I got together with her son!! She even made the point of sticking a British flag outside her house after we got married, just to remind me what nationality I got married into!

" She even made the point of sticking a British flag outside her house after we got married, just to remind me what nationality I got married into!"

Wot a charmer !!!