to have told this mother that ds could not come round next week?

[GooseyLoosey]

I really need help here as I have lost all perspective about what is reasonable and think I might be over reacting.

The background is that ds is a bit of an "odd" child. He has been assessed as being about 7 years ahead of his peers accademically. He is a funny, outgoing child, but does not always understand other children and can be bossy. He has be badly bullied by the children in his class as a result - although that has stopped at the moment.

He is in Yr 3. In reception he had a best friend. In Yr 1, for reasons niether the school or I ever really understood, the parents of this friend said they would like the school to keep ds away from their son. The parents were my friends and I never saw it coming. Ds cried himself to sleep for months (I was pretty upset too). I talked to ds and kept this child at arms length. Ds played with other people (eventually). Recently he and this boy have become friendly again and ds has been around to his house. I had asked him around to my house tonight.

I went to check with his mother this morning and she said "Oh, X is coming around to our house instead, perhaps your ds could come next week". I said I didn't know and would let her know - I was a bit hurt. Then she said that her ds and my ds had had a falling out at school on Mon and that was the reason. I said OK, in that case, ds won't come around next week. She asked "why not" and then (and this is the bit I am not sure about), I said that ds was really hurt last time her ds did not want to be his friend and I could not let that happen again. She looked like I had slapped her in the face and clearly had no idea what I was going on about.

Should I have just smiled politely and said nothing? I really have lost perspective, but to my way of thinking ds is just being set up to be hurt again and she has no concept of what she is doing. Talk sense to me.

Be honest, and try to be open to her side.

We're all incredibly sensitive about our children getting hurt. But you cannot prevent this part of life from happening, you just have to show your child that you're not devastated by things that hurt. Be strong and loving and help him get up and start again. They look at us for cues of how to look at the world.

I totally empathise, my ds's hurt used to be unbearable to me but it's part of life.

I would try to be open with this woman while accepting that she has her own view of the world too and we can't always arrange for life to suit us. Friendship is harder for very bright children, my b was very gifted and had hardly any friends until he was about ten which was hard for my mother. He was less bothered!
Good luck. If you're not honest you can't work out the best thing. I would keep his options open with this friend if he values it and not burn your bridges. That's only my opinion though!

You are right - but he was so hurt last time. It took months for him to stop crying. I am nor sure that I can let that happen again. Would it not be better to stop them being friends than for ds to have to deal with continued rejection from this boy and his family?

Having half the story isn't any use at all. It seems as though you need to either just let the boys get on with it or you have to have a proper talk with the other mother as to what went on last time and explain why you said what you did.

Having two confused mothers isn't going to make it easier for the boys to be friends.

Very difficult. From her reaction I don't think this mother had thought through their actions on your son. I think it is good that you said something, it might make her think. How hard it is to see you children getting hurt, and it is a part of life but I think you were protecting him. I'm afraid I don't know what I would do about letting your DS go over and play, because although you don't want him to be hurt you also want him to forge friendships.

What about talking to DS about the previous time and how to cope with it if it happens again?

I'm not sure that I am confused - I don't really care what happened last time if I'm honest. I care if ds did something wrong and have addressed that, but beyond that I only care about the outome for ds. At the time he was just coming up to 6 and cried for months on end. I dealt with the consequeces last time, then I went on and dealt with the bullying and managed to hold my head up and smile at all of their mothers. I never made a bid deal of any of this with ds. I just felt that niether ds or I can deal with any more. It is sounding a bit melodramatic I guess.

I think it's acceptable to find out why this mum asked for your ds to be kept away from her ds in the past, but now it's okay for them to play again.

I remember how fluid but also passionate friendships were at that age - I would break up and make up with my bf about 3 times a week - but this is the part of your story I find really odd.

Why did she interfere then but is now looking really confused when you say you don't want your ds hurt again?

I think I would need to know what my ds had done to her ds to make her approach the school and stop the friendship? I don't know who is over reacting here as the story isn't complete.

I mean, for example if they fall out again is she going to get the school involved again? Seems bonkers.

It is always best to have all the facts on the table. I would absolutely have a lovely old chat with her about everything and then agree a strategy, maybe they see eachother occasionally, but also others etc. Communication is essential.

No you did the right thing...she sounds rude and thoughtless.

SenoritaViva - you are right, I don't want to interfere in his friendships, and have swallowed my pride and had all the kids who bullied him over but I think that this particular one may be setting him up to be hurt over and over again.

Goosey, do you have any idea why she got the school involved last time round?

Sorry to go on about it but I find it so odd that she should be 'look like she'd been slapped' when you got involved in their friendship this time round, when she did so last time round.

I do think you need to have a chat with her like Hullygully says.

I went through a very similar experience a few years ago with my ds. He was about the same age as your ds too (he is now 14) I still feel extremely upset now if ever I think back to it - so you really do have my sympathy.

I did as others here have suggested, and had a discussion with the mother. It was a complete waste of time and only proved to me that her attitude to parenting was causing all the problems and I wasn't prepared to allow her behaviour result in my child feeling upset. Meanwhile, her ds and my ds were being friends at school, so I explained the situation to my ds, who really seemed to understand and so the friendship continued at school but not anywhere else.
Hope this makes sense - I have tried to keep in concise rather than go into detail of my experience and confuse the thread.

Yes, have a chat with her.
Say 'You seemed a bit surprised when I sugggested DS dodnt come to play with your DS next week when we chatted earlier. I just wanted to clear up what I meant. I know that the boys fell out in reception after being friends for a while and that you asked the teachers to keep them apart. Thats fair enough, but DS was upset for a long time and when you said earlier that you'd changed todays play date plans due to them falling out again I thought it might be best to take a step back altogether to stop the same thing happeneing again. What do you think?'
and see what she says?
It might make her actually realise that she is micro managing her DSs friendships a bit much and that she should just let him get on with it a bit!

dh talked to her last time about what the problem was. She said that ds distracted her son in class - we spoke to the school as that is clearly not on - the school said they were not in the same groups, never worked together and ds always got on with his work as he loves it. She also said that her son found ds a bit "over powering". I get this and can see that it can be true, but I can't understand why she spoke to the school in the terms that she did so I have always assumed that there was something more that she does not want to tell us.

Other parents have said to me that ds "is not like other children", so I can see why her son might not like him. ds himself says that other children think he is "wierd". He can be bossy and over bearing. However, either the child likes ds or he does not - either is fine. He cannot get his mother involved every time they have a playground spat (in my view).

I think I was hurt too as she just invited another child around and didn't even think to offer an explanation to me about what she had done. I just feel that there is a general sentiment that it is OK to treat ds in a worse way to other children, because its only him and he's not like the others.

I agree. If I had asked the school to stop a child playing with one of my kids (highly unlikely) I would expect that if the mother of that child found out she would confront me and ask me to explain my actions. I think you don't do that sort of thing unless you can justify your actions.
Crying for weeks sounds a bit OTT, my kids were always falling out with friends when younger, but if your son does get that hurt then I think asking her what went wrong last time and telling her your son was hurt may clarify it all.
The woman sounds rude not informing you when she changed her mind about her son coming to your house. If they fall out that often they may be as well not being friends or just being casual friends at school until they get to an age when they can choose whose house to go to and not need parents to control their social lives as much.

Goosey, I would imagine that her ds blamed yours for him not getting on with work, and perhaps she believed it without that drop of scepticism we all need when it comes to dc's reports. She probably spoke to the school hoping it could be dealt with tactfully so as not to affect your friendship.

They are very young, of course he will talk to his mother about what happens at school, and sadly, it isn't as black and white as "likes" or "doesn't like." We all have times when friends or family get on our nerves and times when we love them. It's part and parcel of life.

Talk to her.

I should also add that in the first few months of reception, she said that ds had made a racist comment to her son. Her son is half italian. When I asked ds about this (in a very, very round about way), he had no clue what I was talking about. He has no concept of race or racism (then or now). I didn't really know how to deal with this at the time so perhaps I did not deal with it well enough. Maybe she has not forgotten it (I certainly have not).

All those who say I should talk to her - would you really? I feel quite hurt already and suspect that I would feel worse at the end. fel1x - your response sounds so reasonable. Problem is, I rather suspect that I would mean the conversation to go like that, but emotion would take over. Maybe I should try though.

sixlostmonkeys - I suspect the outcome would be similar.

Kenobi - I can see that it looks like only half the story - hopefully the extra info will help.

2rebecca - ds's reaction was extreme, I know - but much about him is a little odd. In addition, this was in the context of quite bad bullying and suddenly the child who was his refuge wanted nothing to do with him and he was not allowed to play with him.

Hully - I think that is exactly what happened. The school acknowledgeed that there had become a culture in the class of blaming ds for everything - whether he had anything to do with it or not. They are quite clear that he is not disruptive in class - on the contrary - all the teachers say he is joy to have.

The more I read the more it appears to be so similar to my experience. Your posts really could have been mine some years ago.

It is my opinion, and obviously an opinion based on the very bad memories that a discussion with her would be pointless. As said above she is micro-managing and imo a discussion would only add to the micro-management. She doesn't sound teh type to listen at all to your point of view never mind change her ways and if you feel anything like i did back then it will leave you feeling dreadful.
Go with your instinct on how to deal with it. Whether a chat with your son would help, distracting him from this friendship, or simply leaving him to have the friendship at school and learning as he goes along what friendships matter and what don't....

Goosey This kind of exclusion bullying is hard to pin down.Really hurtful and destructive too. Some kids, like you son's "Friend" seem to play fast-and-loose with other kids@ emotions and cause havoc.I can understand that you don't want him hurt again - you're the one who has to pick up the pieces after all. Tread very carefully on this one and don't over-react. Don't let "friend" think he is the only person in your son's life. What about a new friend or even better a whole group of new friends that are outside school? Maybe join beavers or cubs or similar? That would show the school ring-leader that he is not so important in your son's life.Also it might give your son confidence in building friendships too.

Hi Goosey, I wasn't doubting you, just finding her actions inexplicable and wanted more background. It seems like she's rather thoughtless.

As hard as it is, I do think you need to talk to her - and as rationally as possible. I loathe confrontation so I know where you are coming from but if you practice what you are going to say, and try and imagine every permutation of what she might say in return.

In a funny sort of way it might be worse for you than him - I was a very eccentric, clever child who wasn't brilliant with other kids - I could also be bossy and overbearing as I was terrible at understanding the finer nuances of social interaction. I went from a very sweet junior school to one of the smartest senior schools in the country and had a terrible time for a while until I finally learned how to interact properly (and I learned very well).

I found out recently that mother (highly social, very popular) went through utter agonies at my hurt confusion and used to cry for me at night. Because I sorted it all out in my own time, I barely remember the misery of that period, I just know it was hard - it broke her heart more than mine.

Sorry to hijack but I thought you might find this reassuring.

I agree with crossword - in fact it has reminded me that it was at this time (when my ds was so very very low (being bullied etc)) that he joined the youth tenpin bowling club. It was the best thing we ever did and helped him so very very much (many years, trophies, tournaments and friendships later he is still playing)

She's the one that sounds a bit odd and a helicopter mum! How would a kid that age know what a racist comment is - either yours or her ds!
I'd just leave them alone - no point at all in maintaining this friendship or arranging play dates. How do you know if she's going to change her mind at the very last minute!
Your ds will just end up being hurt - just explain to him that she is not very reliable for keeping dates and rather than him get all excited about it - only to be let down - better not to arrange anything at all.
She sounds very selfish!

You are right about the out of school stuff. Ds was doing football and it was mostly going well. Guess what? her ds has recently joined!

OK - the consensus is I should talk to her. I don't think I can speak face to face. I am quite upset by ds's overall school experience and I think this would come across if I spoke to her. Can I e-mail her along the lines of the following (with thanks to fel1x for much of the wording)?

Hi

Just thought I should explain why I said this morning that ds couldn't come around next week.

When the boys fell out in Yr 1 after being friends and you spoke to the school, ds was confused and upset for a long time afterwards. When you said this morning that you'd changed todays plans as they had had a run-in again at school, I thought it might be best to take a step back to stop the same thing happening again. As ds had said nothing to me, I was slightly surprised so I probably didn't say what I meant to or say it the way I meant to - I do that and only realise afterwards.

Anyway, what do you think?

GL