To feel a bit miffed about the Big Fat Gypsy series?

[NannyState]

I dunno. It just doesn't sit comfortably with me. I am third generation Irish Traveller. My grandparents 'married out' and so left the community. However, I still identify with the culture to some extent and am proud to be from Traveller stock.

I know that there are elements of the Traveller culture and traditions that are old fashioned, conservative and certainly not female-friendly. I am a in no way defending a lot of what goes on within Traveller communities.

However, I really feel like the 'Big fat Gypsy Wedding' series is just taking the piss out of Travellers, really, and I cannot see C4 having the gall to do that with any other cultural group.

Am I alone in this? It isn't telling even half the story of the Travller experience. And it doesn't feel like a genuine, documentary 'glimpse into Traveller culture', it just feels (to me) like an excuse to all have a good laugh at the chavtastic pikeys and their big meringue dresses'

YANBU. It seemed to me like a bunch of Islingtonistas making a programme about travellers for laughs and shock effect. Live and let live. They seemed very spirited and content. Good luck to them.

I thought that Channel 4 let the community off lightly for their treatment of teenage girls particularly in respect to allowing pre-teens to leave school at 11 to 'keep house' or mind younger siblings.

I personally find that tragic. That's how they keep the girls so compliant - they haven't the confidence you get from an education or any options if they decide NOT to marry young.

They aren't gypsies, they are Travellers.

That should read 'pre-teen GIRLS'.. Men rule the roost of course.

I loved it and actually found myself respecting them more to be honest. The main character was great. Yes we did have a giggle but I also giggled at Camilla's face when the riots were on in London and her picture was in the front of the paper!!

nanny state - what differs in the real world - I'm quite intreguied (sp sorry!)

Did I hear correctly that the girl left school @ 11 years old?

I don't think many people would be quite so brave saying it to their faces nannystate
I love the show and I love the dresses (I want one when I get married) and I am certainly NOT laughing or poking fun at anyone

Are travellers 'abnormal' then takeit? [Hmm]

I missed last night's programme. Could someone explain the 'grabbing' thing please?

oggybogs - 'grabbing' is no way near what was shown last night in most Irish Traveller communities in Ireland. It is simply boys trying to get a girl to 'get off with them' (give them a kiss, sya they'll be their girlfriend' and girls having the power to say 'no'. It doesn't have to involve - and in Ireland, certainly in the community I know - DOES NOT ROUTINELY involve physical aggression or coercion.

You have to remember that if a boy 'succeeds', he will have to marry that girl, or they will both be disgraced. So boys don't go marauding around trying to grab any girl they meet, and it only happens in a small window of opportunity in a Traveller's life - between thew ages of 15/16-17/18 yrs old.

I am not justifying or defending Traveller attitudes to sex and relationships, btw. they are archaic and Traveller women suffer because of it, no doubt.

I watched it because I found 'the horse fair' I think it was called on the community channel, fascinating.

While I was watching it I noticed how similar their rules are to our if you put them into words, the girls just wanted a decent bloke (who doesn't) and their parents wanted to keep a close check on what they're up to, making sure they're not on their own and safe.

It was the differences that made for an interesting watch, although I did feel a bit sorry for the little lass at her first communion struggling to walk in such a heavy dress.

I think you could probably find some offence if you looked at how it was edited and how they were portrayed, but I thought they came across really well.

YANBU

I admit I'm one of "the have a laugh at the pikeys crowd" but you are right and it is paramount to facism. We as a nation pride ourselves on defending culture and respecting the right to live your life out as you choose (without hurting others) so taking the piss out of travellers is hypocritical and unfair.

I think from now on I shall limit it to laughing at people because they are dressed like working girls and princess fairy vomit. We're allowed to laugh at bad taste but not people? That is fair?

well said elephantjelly. We are a tolerant nation. I thought the middle class producers were trying to manipulate the audience by some of the clips that they chose to concentrate on. In spite of that, the travellers came across very well.

OP

If you were really a traveller - you wouldnt even ally your self with 'chavtastic pikeys'

Worlds apart.

What's wrong with chavtastic pikeys? Are they any worse than Ra Ra Ruperts and Hooray Henrys?

I think the programme does offer a rare (even if it is 'edited') insight into a closed and secrative (often for good reason!) community.

However I DO really wish the programme would state the difference between Gypsy and Irish Traveller communities to be honest. There IS a 'travelling community', but Gypsies are not Travellers (Irish or Scottish) and Travellers are not Gypsies!

I don't give a stuff how and why they were marrying - I am only interested in who was paying for it!

Pikey is an offensive term as Gypsies and Irish Travellers are protected by the Race Discrimination Act. As far as I am aware Ra Ra Rupert is not an offensive term under the act?

The narrator did say 'gypsies and travellers' every time they talked about them.

Perhaps the difference between the two will come up in one of the other progs todderwrangler?

Agent - I hope it is. I noticed that the two twrms were used, but then the word 'travellers' was also used ineterchngeably, which I think is what can be very confusing to those with no knowledge of the travelling community!

I think it would be nice and very interesting to have a series on travellers that showed them in a more positive light...or at least with unbiased editing.

Travellers on the whole get a very poor press due to the bad eggs who often cause misery by invading private land, making a god awful mess, extorting outrageous amounts of money out of people for poorly done work, fighting and stealing from local shops.

I think something to redress the balance is long overdue and to show the positive side and nice, thoughtful travellers in the media.

I find the insight into these communities fascinating, but limiting it to weddings is a shame. I would like to know much more about their history and culture. I would also like a more daring expose of the issues and problems in traveller culture, like poor education, how they run their businesses, how they organise caring for needy people within the community, healthcare, female oppression etc.

But this is Channel 4, home of trivialised, sensationalist crap. Meringue dresses are about as deep as they will go