to think disabled people should be able to park in P&C spaces if the disabled spaces are full?

[nappyaddict]

Someone I know today was moaning about an "old biddy" who had parked in a P&C space because there were no disabled spaces left. Now I actually have a blue badge for my DS who has no sense of danger but I only use it in car parks where we can't park near a footpath. If we can park near a footpath in a normal space then I will park there and put reins on him or hold his hand.

I just think it's a shame that people would rather an elderley person or disabled person struggle than offer them their P&C space!

I know Morloth. .. And those are the people who never seem to receive a fine. It's the old dear who's badge has fallen on the floor in the wind who gets the fine and the nubile 20 year without one that skips off scot-free. Grrr .

Possibly because physical disability isn't always obvious. Disabled people don't walk around with "I am disabled" tattoed on there foreheads.

I know Morloth. .. And those are the people who never seem to receive a fine. It's the old dear who's badge has fallen on the floor in the wind who gets the fine and the nubile 20 year without one that skips off scot-free. Grrr .

monkeyjamtart, I look forward to you launching your 'Tattoo the Disabled campaign.'
Some of them are covert, unfair to all you Judge Dredd types.

So important I said it twice.

Agreed Sirzy. There are a lot of people where their mobility/disability is not apparent upon looking at them. For instance my pal with a false leg. Walks lovely on it but not for long. It's hidden and they have been shouted at and called into question...and that's when the leg comes out to say hello :-)

Ah the fines

One day I accidentally aprked in a disabled space; I ahve since shown to DH,, he agrees it's 50/50 from signange whether it is P&T or Disabled, I got it wrong.

I got back to be threatened with a fine. Reader I had asd ds1 and ds3 in the car, and DLA evidence showing they get higher and middle rate care.

I explained and showed this to the attendant to be laughed at; none of their interest.

Oh how I laughed! It was a genuine mistake and Sainsbos dropped the fine as they have a one warning ep vehicle policy anyway but still, it shows how crap the system is does it not?

P&C places are not legally enforceable (unlike disabled spots) the store might issue you with a 'fine' but I am pretty sure you can tell them where to stick it. They might then decide to not let you shop there anymore but the police/roads people wouldn't be interested.

P&C places are a perk, disabled spots are a necessity.

Virgin why did you have to mention the possibility the badge had fallen off? I was enjoying my destructive plans...

£50 they wanted, run by a privtae parking firm- was pre the clampers legislation though.

FUnny as I am the alst person who would take a disabled space on purpose yet otehrs I know (an ex) who do it routinely are never challenged. Ho hum.

Coz I hear it everyday...it goes a little something like this..

"Eee dear, I wouldn't care the badge had blown off with the wind/ flipped over to show the photo with the wind/ flew out of the door...with the wind and they fined me even though I showed the traffic warden the badge"

Surely the traffic wardens responsible for fining 85 yr olds who's parking badges have flipped over are all going to hell.

But Morloth, feel free to bump anyone you think, beyond reasonable doubt, are fiddling the system. Just say "The Virgin" said it was okay.

I have this year taken to using P&T space in protest of the sense of entitlement I have witnessed (but only if there are plenty of disabled spaces available).
I have done the toddler days and I realised it was a convenience and not a legal requirement.

Further to my post - I don't use that supermarket anymore and the parking WAS part of the reason.

Though this is another thing... when do you STOP using P&C spaces?
My son is 6 and altho still in a car seat I haven't used a P&C space for ages and ages... infact the last time I did it was because I had a friends younger child with me.

Ellie I would say when the child can climb into the car by themselves and do up and undo the harness by themselves. DS can't do this and he is 4.6. He will be in a 5 point harness until he is 55kg and outgrows his rear facing car seat. Currently he is 17kg so we have a while to go!

Margaret I didn't use the term old biddy. That's why I put it in quotation marks.

If you have a blue badge you can park anywhere that is safe. Therefore you cannot be fined for parking in a P&C space. Actually nobody can be fined for parking in a P&C space because they aren't legally enforceable. If anyone feels they still need to use a P&C space maybe because their child has SN (although you can get a blue badge you know, especially if it is Autism - the NAS has a fab cover letter that could be applied to lots of learning disabilities) or because they are still in a harnessed car seat and can't mange to do it up themselves yet then don't worry that you might get fined because legally you won't have to pay it.

A person with a blue badge is entitled by law to use a P&C space. A person with a child can use a normal space if a P&C space is not available. Its a no brainer IMHO.

I remember the Guardian article about this very subject, written by a journo MNer who was enraged by the rude note left on her elderly, disabled parents' car by some self-absorbed cretin of a parent. Apols if this has been mentioned already on this thread, haven't read the whole thing!

Parent & child parking spaces are a luxury. Disabled parking is not, and IMO P&C spaces should automatically be signposted as available to disabled people as well.

Those of you with frail, doddery elderley relatives, do they have blue badges? If not have they tried to apply for one and been refused or have they just not got around to applying?

Eh? Nappyaddict.

Are you saying that a perfectly able bodied parent with a perfectly able bodied child should be more entitled to a larger parking space than a frial, doddery elderly person?

No, where have I said that

All i think NappyA is saying is that people are 'doddery' it may be worth them applying for a badge as it makes life easier all round?

They don't have P&C spaces in Holland. Somehow we all survive. They are extremely strict on the disabled spaces too, it is absolutely not done to use one if you are not entitled.

BTW should someone who is 'doddery' be driving?

I have a blue badge. I also have 2 toddlers. I often find in places we go that both the disabled spaces and the P&C spaces are full. I do find it very selfish that able-bodied people use these spaces to 'nip in'. I don't think they can fully understand the extent of the extra difficulty, and sometimes danger, it causes.

I cannot drive (due to my disability) but my blue badge is for when others (like DH) drive me. I'm aware that my disability is not always that obvious, so people probably sometimes see us getting out of the car and feel resentful.

My experience of getting a blue badge is that it is not easy, and a high level of proof is required (my disability is progressive and had to be very far advanced before I qualified). I think that if you see someone has a blue badge, then don't judge their disability on looks. However, if someone does not have a blue badge, they should not be using the space. The blue badge rules clearly say that if you have left your blue badge at home, you cannot park in those spaces. Inconvenient and annoying, but necessary, I think, as otherwise there would be no way of policing it.

Actually now I come to think of it I'm grateful just to get a space of any sort at all. We're all supposed to be on our bikes you see - believe it or not we have a kind of P&C bike parking space for the 'bakfietsen'.

My Mam had a blue badge for my granny, she only ever used it when granny was actually with her. It must have been tempting to use it but she never did, to her credit I think.