What on earth is wrong with vaccinating children ffs?

[poshsinglemum]

I'm sure this has been done before a million times.

A friend of mine who has gone all woo recently isn't vaccinating her dd because some quack gave a lecture on the evils of vaccinating. My ex boyfriends mum was a complete quack/chrystal healer and begged me not to vaccinate against typhoid, encaphalitus, rabies etc when I went to the third world. She gave me a homeopathic kit. Needless to say I got the jabs anyway.

I think that the ''evidence'' not to vaccinate is coming from the woo crew and is fuelled by paranoid conspiracy theories concerning the pharmeceutical industry. I am not completely convinced by the industry myself but I'd rather take a chance on them than my dd getting polio etc.

I just read the MIL thread but I have been meaning to discuss this for ages.

Apple...you are putting words in my mouth.

They are not stupid. Nor wrong. They hold different opinions to me. I understand that. Just because I don't agree with opinion, it doesn't mean I think they are wrong or stupid.

differentname: (sorry, please don't think I am having a go. this is all said with curiosity only

so, if you don't think I am stupid (thank you ), and you don't think I am wrong (I assume wrt dd1 and her issues) - how can you hold a different opinion form me wrt getting dd2 vaccinated? I don't understand how, if you think that I am not wrong wrt dd1 having been harmed by vaacines, you would think i owuld line up dd2?

and if you don't, wrt me getting my dd2 vaccinated, then how come all children with a mito dysfunction should be gettig jabbed? or all children where there is a history of auto-immune disease (the links are ever-increasing on this), or children with a family history of ASD, and so on.

as I have said throughout, this is not a black and white issue, however much posters like LooktoWindward want ot make it one.

Now the problems I have with vaccinations the MMR inpartiular are...

Prior to having it DS1 was a happy go lucky little boy with no issues at all.

He was a great sleeper and eater.

After having it his behavioural problems started

He stopped sleeping - only slept for 2 hours from 6am until 8am and then did a full day at reception.

He became very fussy with food - going through 6 months of eating plain pasta then a further 6m of eating dry bread.

He was diagnosed with RAS

He was also diagnosed with Asthma

He was also diagnosed with childhood Arthritis.
He had a year of constant ear infections

The same year he had constant chest infections and tonsilitis

None of which occured until after he had the MMR at the age of 4.5 yrs.

DS2 has not had any jabs since before the 12m ones and is much healthier.

Based on my personal experience I will not vaccinate DS2.

God all these stories make me so angry because it makes me certain there must be countless many mothers who have noticed changes in their children, but are being fobbed off.
It's the fobbing off that gets to me

If they could just be honest , compile a proper database of children who had suffered adverse reactions, then that would be okay with me. BUt it's all the secrecy, and it really is secrecy. THe only reason the anti-polio mothers managed to mobilize in Japan was because of the blogosphere. MOthers are finally able to compare notes. But it shouldn't have to come to that. There should be an efficient, reliable recording system in place.
Instead there are just fob offs and flimsy research

Agreed silverfrog. If we are not stupid, and we are not wrong, then it's a completely random decision to simply hold a different opinion.

I mean, if they're not wrong, they must be right.

It's not opinion. It's people saying "this is what happened to my child", and doctors, clinical researchers, consultants, etc agreeing with them. So if they aren't wrong, they are right. Or at least it's "don't know" and we're back to Wakefield again -- more research if you please.

There's a big difference between holding different opinions and dealing with the facts of the matter. It's not, well I thought it was a good film and you thought it was a bad film. It's someone saying "this happened" and you saying "you aren't wrong".

Sorry I just canNOT let this go!

"Just because I don't agree with opinion, it doesn't mean I think they are wrong."

Yes, it absolutely does. Thousands and thousands of people say their children have suffered vaccine damage, ranging from auto-immune problems, ASD issues, gut and bowel issues. If you have a different opinion, you think they are wrong. All of them, all their doctors. With no knowledge of them, their case histories, anything.

I think the main problem is that everyone tries t lump in aeveryone who chooses not to vaccinate according the government scheddule as "anti-vaxxers", despite being told many, many times that a lot of us wouldn't be in the position we are in, if we were "anti-vaxxers"

so, generally, people come on these threads and say "everyone should vaccinate their children, except those with health/medical/valid reasons not ot"

those valid reasons include (different groups for different vaccines, but overall):

people with epilepsy
people with allergies
people with crohns/gut disorders
history of autism (possibly)
history of auto immune disorders
evidence or suspicion of mitochondrial disorder

and probably a lot more.

that is a lot of people.

so, once you have taken all of those into account (after all, by most rational people's reasoning they are exempt) - are there really so many more who are refusing jabs?

has there been a single person cme onto this thread and say "yes, all medical history is a farce, vaccination is evil"

or have the people who have chosen to not vaccinate (in entirety, or in part following an incident) all said "not for my child thankyou. not while I am forced ot go one route only. more research please"

but we just end up with a lot of fence stting - a lot of "of course I don't think you are wrong about your child, but I mean in general, people shoudl just vaccinate"

the problem is, there is NO "in general" when it comes to the health of your child.

there is you, your family, and their health.

My DS went blind the day of his 3 month vaccination.

Vaccinations are not safe. People should be allowed to decide whether or not they think the risk of being vaccine damaged outweighs the risk of being damaged by the disease....

And it's interesting to watch from the ptehr side how our family fits the at risk group more over time

both my sisters had arthritis before they were 16, I knew there was a vague history of autoimmune: in fact. I have developed psoriasis so bad now on a hormonal / monthly basis that I have permanent scarring over my chest, lefta rm, part of my legs and thighs.

Didn;t know that then, of course: only started in the autumn.

but that's the thing, Peachy.

people need to know that the research is looking at autoimmune links ot vaccine damage/autism/regression etc.

and if we are not allowed ot speak out, and are repeatedly silinced, then who knows how many people, who could maybe choose another route, such as singles, will ine up for vaccination.

and who knows what those outcomes will be?

maybe ok, maybe not.

and as you know, if you fall into the "not" category, there is bugger all help available.

sorry, by silenced I mean shouted down, not listened to, dismissed as lying, being desperate to somehow make the backstory fit what we woudl like it to, etc.

Agreed. The extreme, absolutist view comes from the other side, and it simply doesn't stand up to examiniation.

To be honest I think the view "it is proved that there is no link between MMR-ASD-autoimmune" doesn't even stand up to any preliminary investigation.

It's the extremity of the view of the other side there is NO link, there is NO such damage, not now, never has been, and you are an imbecile to imagine so that leads one into believing that there is some mendacity somewhere.

what the...grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

appletrres, you need to stop using double hyphens

strikeout now works with -- at teh beginning and end of a phrase, rather than each individual word

I have developed psoriasis so bad now on a hormonal / monthly basis that I have permanent scarring over my chest, lefta rm, part of my legs and thighs.

Keep an eye on your joints. I have psoriatic arthritis, it developed some years after I first got psoriasis. Any twinges or swellings in any of your joints (it doesn't affect them all at the same time and itmigrates around), get thee to a doctor pronto!

Thanks

I have yet to see a gp a it always just ends in me beiong told if I wanted it to stoip i'd give up bf (they dont like ebf but ds4 is casein intolerant)

babybarrister, I'm not sure I entirely understand.

my list (if oyu are referring back to htat), was of groups of people who are currently not able to have vaccines because of lack of research/lack of choice

there are some vaccines that I want/would want for dd2 as she grows up, but cannot give them to her because they are bundled in with other things.

once again, I am NOT anti vaccine, but AM pro-choice.

SF is all right, she was referring I think to a brief but interesting chat we had earlier on this thread

sorry, babybarrister, I am aware of that.

I jsut didn't know whether your post was in criticism/correction of mine .

a few posts back I listed groups of people who have reasons not to vaccinate, and people with allergies was one of those groups...

I see.

you are neither agreeing or disagreeing with my statement:
"so, generally, people come on these threads and say "everyone should vaccinate their children, except those with health/medical/valid reasons not ot"

those valid reasons include (different groups for different vaccines, but overall):

people with epilepsy
people with allergies
people with crohns/gut disorders" etc

That is an interesting paper linked above, on asthma and MMR.

They say "We evaluated the association between MMR vaccination and asthma-like disease in early childhood. Our results show that MMR-vaccinated children are less often hospitalized with asthma diagnoses and use less anti-asthma medication than unvaccinated children. This effect was most pronounced among the youngest children and children who were vaccinated age-appropriately."

So the MMR vaccine also seems to protect against asthma, as well as against measles, mumps and rubella. Thats great!